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scooker48
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Posted: Sun Nov 7th, 2010 23:41 |
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Does any reporting MP member have experience with a diagnosis of Hepatitis C? I understand it is viral in nature; would the MP help?
I write on behalf of a member of my family who has been diagnosed with Hepatitis C for 10 years. He has lost 40 pounds and really needs some help. He has refused Interferon therapy and is now only smoking canibis.
All experience is appreciated and Thank you in advance,
Sherry
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D25, Total: 15 9/6/12
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 05:02 |
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Sherry,
None of the opportunistic pathogens can persist when the immune system is operating properly, and not suppressed by the microbiota. The fact the Hep C has been found in this case is because they looked for it. I guarantee that there will be other viral pathogens found too (eg EBV) if they look hard enough for them. And if there was a metagenomic scan done (not possible yet, of course) there would be thousands of species at detectable levels. With everybody, even healthy people.
The provisional human lung microbiome shows that a healthy lung is full of many varied species, none of which are dominant, while the COPD lung is dominated (98%) by one species -- Pseudomonas...
Our new chapter comes out soon (Amazon are saying 16/17 December) and a lot of this fundamentally new understanding is in that paper 
We were invited to submit another huge (30+ pages) paper on Immunopathology and Immunostimulatory treatments to an NPG journal. Hopefully that will be published soon too
All of this puts a solid peer-reviewed underpinning to where we are right now At the dawn of a new era in Medicine
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Rico
Support Team
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Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 11:10 |
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Trevor, some of what you said was quite intriguing, especially about healthy individuals. Do you have an idea at the percentage of pathogens that can be killed on the MP? Can the immune system ever kill all of them? Is it even possible?
Rico
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No diagnosis/some symptoms; wife with Sarc on MP; Olm 40mg q6h| avoid D| 1,25D=63 25D=32 (May 2006) 1,25D=44; 25D=10(Dec 2006)PhaseI(May06) PhaseII(Aug06) PhaseIII(Aug07)
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SanDiegoJoy
Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 16:01 |
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Scooker: I was diagnosed with Hep C a few years before I found out I also had Sarcoidosis. About 12 years ago. I even did a clinical trial on the first Interferon. (I was on low dose and not cured). Then when they came out on the market with Pegylated (time-release) Interferon combined with the antiviral pill Ribavirin, I did that and cured my Hepatitis C.
However, I had a very responsive genotype of the virus (type 2b) which has a higher cure rate with Interferon (about 85% and you only have to do the drugs for 6 months). Most people in the U.S. have Genotype 1 (or 1a?) which has about a 45-50% cure rate and you have to do it for a year. At least this is how it was done about 8 years ago. Since Hep C is caused by a virus I do not believe it could be cured by the MP (but I don't know that for sure).
Doing Interferon, even if you have to do it for a year (most people) and try it more than once (like Naomi Judd, who was cured her 2nd try at it) is worth it and let me tell you, although difficult, it is not as tough as doing the MP! I was able to keep working at my job at a busy law firm during my Interferon treatment.
It's hard for me to understand why anyone would turn down Interferon because Hepatitis C will likely shorten one's life. The heavy duty flu symptoms you experience from it are worse the first month or two and then get milder after that. I would do the injection on Friday night and most of the flu symptoms would be gone by Monday when I had to work. I did lose my appetite and lost a lot of weight and also had quite a depression but Wellbutrin took care of that. I am very happy to no longer have it any longer.
Joy
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Sarcoidosis, Sjogren's, Insomnia, IgA Imm.Def., Osteoporosis, Hypothyroid, Poor Cognition - PhI 12/05; PhII 4/06; PhIII 12/06; 12/10 D 5; Armour Thyroid
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Cynthia Schnitz
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Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 16:59 |
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I googled on 'NPG journal' and eventually came across this editorial about upcoming articles on Immunopathology, and think that this gives a pretty good idea of where their heads are at.
http://www.nature.com/icb/journal/v85/n1/full/7100016a.html
I see that they are still thinking that animal models are key.
"One consistent theme across all papers is the crucial importance of relevant animal model systems to elucidate mechanisms of immunity or those that lead to immunopathology. Ultimately, the aim is to develop intervention strategies to manipulate the host response in a manner that will minimize immunopathology while allowing resolution of an infection."
Looks like the MP is exactly what they are hoping for. What an opportunity for Dr. Marshall and the MP.
Cynthia
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MP start 10/08 (no breaks) | Spondylitis 97, early Diverticulosis 98, early AMD 08, Calcium anomaly 95, TypeII Diabetes(?) 02 | 25D=10.1ng/ml 12/12, (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) | My progress
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Joyful
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Posted: Tue Nov 9th, 2010 07:19 |
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The general thinking regarding how the MP helps address viral infections is that restoration of the innate immune function provides what is needed to recover from any type of pathogenic infection.
However, some people, especially those with acute infections will not be willing to take the long, slow route to better immune function.
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Forums • Be Kind, We Are All Fragile • Conferences
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Tue Nov 9th, 2010 11:39 |
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I have been at an NIH meeting in San Francisco all day and missed posting on this thread. Sorry about that.
Since Hep C is caused by a virus I do not believe it could be cured by the MP (but I don't know that for sure)
As Joyful stated above, a healthy human immune system effectively eradicates virus, fungi, bacteria and other chronic pathogens. That is the end-point of MP therapy.
"Cure" for main-stream medicine is not really a "cure". It is the disappearance of that specific virus from the test results. But all these virii are part of the microbiota (see Amy's talk in Ljubljana and the chapter on the Viral Microbiome in he upcoming textbook)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO2YXh0ajnk
These viral pathogens, and bacterial pathogens such as H.pylori, can never be fully eliminated by drugs, especially the anti-virals, they just go into an inactive state for a while...
Additionally, the immune suppression from the antivirals could well have contributed to the progress of your Th1 microbiota, eventually leading to your Sarcoidosis diagnosis. Interferons are bad drugs IMO.
Do you have an idea at the percentage of pathogens that can be killed on the MP? Can the immune system ever kill all of them? Is it even possible?
\We will have to wait a few more years to be certain. But have seen vital skin infections slowly (ever so slowly) disappear from our early adopters. And I see no reason a fully healthy immune system wouldn't rise to the challenge. Now, whether an immune system that has accumulated a lifetime of 'autoantibodies' is capable of recovering to "full-health", only time will tell. Then again, maybe those 'persistent autoantibodies' and 'clonal B-cells' do not really exist...
..trevor..
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Russ
Member*
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Posted: Tue Nov 9th, 2010 12:59 |
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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: Now, whether an immune system that has accumulated a lifetime of 'autoantibodies' is capable of recovering to "full-health", only time will tell. Then again, maybe those 'persistent autoantibodies' and 'clonal B-cells' do not really exist...
..trevor..
Dr. Marshall, could you elaborate on this? I would think that an eventual end to the production of autoantibodies and the damage/symptoms they cause would be crucial to recovering from an autoimmune disease. Did I read this correctly that it may not be possible to stop the production of these autoantibodies?
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*** I recently moved to Connecticut so if anyone knows of MP docs in this state or nearby, please send me a PM. ***
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SanDiegoJoy
Member
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Posted: Tue Nov 9th, 2010 18:09 |
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As I stated before, my blood has been checked by PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction, a very sensitive test) and shows no copies of the Hepatitis C virus. The only way I could get Hepatitis C again would be to be exposed to it and it's very hard to catch; only by blood to blood transmission. I probably got it about 28 yrs. ago when I was an RN.
And yes, the treatment which cured my Hep C did make my Sarcoidosis present itself by becoming more symptomatic and I then got a definitive diagnosis for it at that time. But I was glad to find out I had it sooner rather than later so I could try to cure it. I had had symptoms of it (fatigue, depression and more recently photosensitivity) before I was diagnosed with it.
During the first clinical trial for Interferon only 2 patients out of at least 1000 were diagnosed with Sarcoidosis. I still think a 6mo.-1 yr. proven treatment to cure Hepatitis C is preferable to spending 5 or more years on the MP when so far there is not one patient on the MP (that I know of) with a diagnosis of Hepatitis C who has been cured of it.
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Sarcoidosis, Sjogren's, Insomnia, IgA Imm.Def., Osteoporosis, Hypothyroid, Poor Cognition - PhI 12/05; PhII 4/06; PhIII 12/06; 12/10 D 5; Armour Thyroid
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Tue Nov 9th, 2010 22:55 |
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Why did you need to be cured of Hep C? Because it was associated with organ failure? It seems to cause our members little trouble, other than the diagnosis
Yes, PCR is a very specific and sensitive test. But, as we discuss in our new book chapter, PCR is of little use when examining components of the microbiota, as bugs adjust their genomes when they go into the microbiota, and the specific fragments of the organism, for which conventional PCR tests are looking, may not be present while the microbe is a member of the microbiota.
On resurgence to an acute-phase pathogen, they get those genes back, by methods not really fully understood.
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SanDiegoJoy
Member
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Posted: Wed Nov 10th, 2010 15:01 |
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Hepatitis C can progress to cirrhosis, and it's hard to know who will and who won't progress. If you drink alcohol and are older you have increased chances of progresing to irreversible cirrhosis in 10 or more years (especially men). Also, anyone with Hepatitis C has a greater chance of coming down with liver cancer. I know a person my age from high school who died from liver cancer from his Hepatits C. I met a man at a seminar who had already progressed to severe cirrhosis and was going to require a liver transplant by the time he felt ill and was diagnosed; and he was only about 45 years old. I had Stage 1 fibrosis in my liver and did not want to progress beyond that. Hepatitis C is not usually symptomatic until it has progressed to cirrhosis. I felt ill from my undiagnosed Sarcoidosis, I was having low grade fevers and knew something was wrong, so I was diagnosed with Hep C but did not yet know about the Sarc. Finally, my exhusband (my daughter's father) died from endstage liver disease from Cirrhosis/Hepatitis C/and excessive alchohol intake at the age of 39, when my daughter was 7.
Interferon (and probably Ribavirin also) are not immune suppresants.
Interferon is a natural substance that is part of our body's immune system response. Our body puts out natural Interferon to fight flu viruses and other pathogens (see below). They were able to manufacture a synthetic Interferon. And Ribarvirn interferes with replication of viruses, but it's exact mechanisms of action is unknown.
From Wikipedia:
Interferons (IFNs) are proteins made and released by lymphocytes in response to the presence of pathogens—such as viruses, bacteria, or parasites—or tumor cells. They allow communication between cells to trigger the protective defenses of the immune system that eradicate pathogens or tumors.
Ribavirin is an anti-viral drug indicated for severe RSV infection (individually), hepatitis C infection (used in conjunction with peginterferon alfa-2b or peginterferon alfa-2a) and other viral infections. Ribavirin is a prodrug, which when metabolised resembles purine RNA nucleotides. In this form it interferes with RNA metabolism required for viral replication. How it exactly affects viral replication is unknown; many mechanisms have been proposed for this but none of these has been proven to date. Multiple mechanisms may be responsible for its actions.
Finally, Ribavirin is known to enhance host T-cell-mediated immunity against viral infection through helping to switch the host T-cell phenotype from type 2 to type 1. This may explain ribavirin's antiviral activity against some viruses such as hepatitis C, at doses which do not clearly interfere with replication of the virus when used without interferon.
Last edited on Wed Nov 10th, 2010 15:10 by SanDiegoJoy
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Sarcoidosis, Sjogren's, Insomnia, IgA Imm.Def., Osteoporosis, Hypothyroid, Poor Cognition - PhI 12/05; PhII 4/06; PhIII 12/06; 12/10 D 5; Armour Thyroid
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Thu Nov 11th, 2010 04:08 |
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Joy,
I have waxed long and frequently here explaining the difference between exogenous ingested Vitamin D metabolites, and those endogenous metabolites expressed in the cells themselves. My recent presentation in Scotland went into detail with the issue of getting stuff from the bloodstream through the cell walls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO-f0cqnz-4
Why, then, do you cite a Wikipedia article about the endogenous functions of Interferons and assume that exogenous ingestion (or injection) of Inteferons will lead to equivalent functionality?
In my post above I cited the link to Amy's presentation on the viral and bacterial microbiome. It is good. Please watch it.
I do understand how tough it is for those of us who have been educated with the historical pragma of clinical medicine to realize that everything has changed in the last 5 years, but that is what has happened. As the Human Genome was explored, and the animal and parasitic genomes, an entire new understanding has arisen about the way our body functions. The new book, in which we wrote the chapter on Autoimmune Disease, will be out before Christmas, and if you scan the chapters there you will find leading university researchers from around the world who are presenting similar models to those we ourselves have devised.
http://www.springer.com/life+sciences/ecology/book/978-1-4419-7088-6
Medicine is changing, it will never be the same again. Complete change will probably take two generations, but it is inevitable. Members here have the opportunity to share in the genesis of that change
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scooker48
Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 11th, 2010 15:27 |
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Dr. Marshall,
I am indeed excited about the book, and hope you will share a preprint copy of your chapterr with the faithful readers of this very important web site.
With highest respect,
Sherry
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D25, Total: 15 9/6/12
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Thu Nov 11th, 2010 19:11 |
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Sherry,
Amazon seems to think they will be shipping it on 16/17 December, while others are saying "November." In either case it should be out before Christmas, and then we will be able to put a preprint online
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titta
Health Professional
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Posted: Thu Nov 11th, 2010 21:54 |
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I hope the book will help us all to really understand that we are in the era of the metagenome. That we are metagenomic by nature.
In real there was never another era.
It is similar to the era of the earth being a flat plate and then the era of the earth being a globe. That what is named earth has always been a globe, just not in our heads and thus explanations and calculations......
So, restoring our immune system with that magic key called the MP, helps 'us' restore against any 'bad bugs'. Because that is what the immune system has been evolved (verb to evolution) to do.
'Bad bugs' is a term for life forms undermining our immune system making us ill, may these be virus, bacteria, fungi. And I am rather sure that amoebae and worms belong here, too, and what other forms yet to be found.....
Titta
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MP start Jul'07 | Sarcoidosis
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