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Going off of Thyroid Medicines
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NWLinda
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 Posted: Mon Jan 23rd, 2012 03:43

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Joyful, I think you're exactly right about the 1,25-D displacing the T-3 in the thyroid. I read something about that in the MPKB. My 1.25-D level was 76 pg, pretty high. I had my level checked again a couple of weeks ago and will post it when I find out what it is.

And Taryn, that's really great news about how your thyroid is just perfect! Wow, good job! (I'm afraid I'm a bit jealous, though!) I think that was really smart how you let the MP take care of the bugs and you eventually stopped the T-3, letting your body sort things out.

I'm going to try that when I've been on the MP for a year or so. That's a ways away, I'm afraid, because I've only been on it for about 3 months. (This is my second go of it.)



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Linda
hypothyroid, otosclerosis, possible sarcoidosis in lungs, skin & one eye, pyroluria, low cortisol, heart palps. 8/10: 25D: 44, 1,25D:76 pg/mL; Ph I:8/24/10; Ph2:1/11; break from MP:3/11-10/11. 12/29/11: 25D: 15ng/mL. 1,25D: 42.1 pg/mL
y
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 Posted: Mon Jan 23rd, 2012 18:54

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Hmmmm, TC, I'm wondering if one of the reasons you've made such fast improvement on the MP is because you'd already gotten your body temperature in range and started weaning T3 before you started the MP. Wilson was one of the many things I considered - wishing now I'd done it.

Wow, Freddie - you really did have some low temperatures! I don't think I've ever been as low as 92.

My update:
I didn't end up being able to stay on just T3. Since I need both, I switched back to Naturethroid instead of taking both Cytomel and Synthroid. I feel better on Naturethroid than on just T3. My hands are still cold. My temperature is still low. Latest blood work has TSH at 6.26 (0.4-45), T3 2.4(2.3-4.2), T4 0.9 (0.8-1.8). So, TSH is high and T3 and T4 at the very low end of in-range. If I follow doctor's suggestion I will be taking twice the dose of Naturethroid that I was on when I started MP.

Happy for those who have been able to reduce.



____________________
MP Benicar only Sep'10; lyme '06, cfs '89, hashimoto's '03; fatigue/weakness, brain hijinks, joint/muscle pain; 125D 77 (8/10), 25D 7.1 (08/14)
CousinTC
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 Posted: Mon Jan 23rd, 2012 20:08

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Y, I did do most of my Major herxing during the year prior to MP.  I still came here a mess but I had already had 5 months of very heavy antibiotic therapy, was on numerous protocols, was working with 7 doctors their diets and 130 pills, etc a day that they all had me on, plus a few of my own. 

I came into the MP using all of this including T-3 and Estrogen up to the DAY I started the MP.  As soon as the MP "gave me permission" to stop all of that insanity, I did, instantly, except for the Estrogen.  I weaned from that in the first few months, grudgingly.

Along with my temperature being able to stabilize, I think I had been able to address a few issues pre-MP that has helped smooth out my journey. 

I was still very sick when I started the MP and I had stopped taking any D for the year prior.  The biggest challenge that I faced was my fear.  I was backsliding and I knew if I didn't do something different, I would become an invalid and would not get well.  Pre MP, I had no workable knowledge of how the disease process worked.

Sorry, long answer to short question.  The best part is that I had been on Synthroid for 10 years Pre B/I T-3 and they told me I would never be able to do without it and that our Thyroid Glands do not heal.  They were wrong. :D:cool::D



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MP Start Sept'10 | Borreliosis/Lyme, Bartonella, Erlicilosis, Mycoplasma, OA, FM, CFS, Hypothyroid | migrating joint pain, fatigue, low body temp, |Start 25D=29 Last 25D=5.1 ng/mL Jan'14
NWLinda
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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 19:29

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Last August, after not being on the MP since March, I read a book by Joel Fuhrman, M.D. entitled Eat to Live. It's not just eating vegan, it's eating a boatload of dark green and other colorful vegies and fruits, avoiding animal products including dairy and eggs, etc. Even though I didn't do everything on his list, it did add up to a huge change in my diet.

I thought it was just a coincidence that I became quite ill after about 3 or 4 days on the diet. I was vomiting and had diarrhea and was miserable. I went back to eating my same old way.

Then, just about 5 days ago, I tried the diet again. Same thing happened: mostly vomiting with a little diarrhea, very fatigued, and brain-fogged. But here's the neat thing: I actually developed a temperature! My body temp has been so low, for decades, that even when I'm sick, I don't have a temp. But yesterday, it was up to 99.3 and that was under my arm! I was so thrilled!
I also noticed that my usual MP herxes notched up from 3/10 to about 6/10. The ear pain woke me up around 3:30 am.

And now, today, my oral temp was 98.6 - I'm just floored! I've tried so hard for so many years to get my body temp up to normal. Finally!

My take on what happened: the Eat to Live diet elevates the body's pH level. Bacteria cannot live in an alkaline environment so they died en masse, releasing their miserable toxins into my blood stream, and making me very sick, a big "Healing Crisis," or Herx, or IP, whatever you want to call it.

Dr. Marshall, if you read this, could you please enlighten me as to what probably happened? Am I understanding it correctly?

Maybe combining the MP with Dr. Fuhrman's diet is the way for me, and possibly others, to go. I wonder if there are any other Mpers out there who have had the same or similar experience combining the MP with Dr. Fuhrman's diet.

I plan to get back on a modified version of the diet when I've completely recovered. Believe you me, I'll be taking it a LOT slower.



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Linda
hypothyroid, otosclerosis, possible sarcoidosis in lungs, skin & one eye, pyroluria, low cortisol, heart palps. 8/10: 25D: 44, 1,25D:76 pg/mL; Ph I:8/24/10; Ph2:1/11; break from MP:3/11-10/11. 12/29/11: 25D: 15ng/mL. 1,25D: 42.1 pg/mL
y
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 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 20:47

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TC,

It was more an observation/wonderment than a question - I don't think we have enough information to know one way or the other.

One of the motivations behind the Wilson protocol is that the body's chemical reactions work best in the 98.6 range. We know chemical reactions outside the body are sensitive to temperature. If true inside the body, it would make sense that if your body was already stabilized around 98.6 then your body might be able to take better advantage of the healing prompted by the Benicar than someone who's trudging along at 92-96.

Certainly we are seeing different responses regarding the thyroid. Some people within the first year see their T3, T4 blood values moving up and/or TSH moving down, indicating they need less outside help. Others see no change or a worsening in lab values indicating they need more outside help. Some go one direction or the other based on symptoms rather than lab values. Some are at the 5-7 year mark and still requiring thyroid medication whereas others are able to wean off of it.

Of course our thinking is that we have different microbiota mixes and we come into the MP with different levels of prior degeneration, so is isn't that surprising we see different results. And sometimes what seems reasonable turns out not to be - so much complexity to the body and so much still not discovered/understood.

I was/am not reaching a conclusion - just taking note. Before starting the MP you had a low temperature. By the time you started the MP you had already done the Wilson protocol and stabilized your temperature. Within your first year on the MP your thyroid lab work was already in range without the need for medication. You have seen steady improvement since starting the MP. Others have started the MP without doing the Wilson protocol and with temperatures that are still low.

That's all - just an observation at this point. I don't think many people post their average temperature when they start the MP.

I'm aware you still had a lot of problems when you started the MP and have made good progress. I think that's great. That was part of my observation. Also aware that you were taking a lot of supplements - think you even shared a picture with us - from a presentation you gave. I was taking a lot of supplements including estrogen & progesterone also and, for good or bad I'll never know for sure, dropped everything immediately except the cortef and thyroid medicine.

Besides being able to get T3,T4, and TSH values in range, some MPers have been able to reduce their antibody counts - another thing most are told will be lifelong and won't heal.

Happy for you that you're one whose thyroid has healed and know you'll continue to see other improvements.



____________________
MP Benicar only Sep'10; lyme '06, cfs '89, hashimoto's '03; fatigue/weakness, brain hijinks, joint/muscle pain; 125D 77 (8/10), 25D 7.1 (08/14)
CousinTC
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 Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2012 20:06

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y wrote: TC,
One of the motivations behind the Wilson protocol is that the body's chemical reactions work best in the 98.6 range. We know chemical reactions outside the body are sensitive to temperature. If true inside the body, it would make sense that if your body was already stabilized around 98.6 then your body might be able to take better advantage of the healing prompted by the Benicar than someone who's trudging along at 92-96.

First, I would like to apologize Y, for not getting back here for so long to respond to you.  I forgot to put the thread on my Watch List. :?

This may seem like a lame response to what you wrote above but this is how I think.  First, Y, I think what you wrote here is extremely valid.  One reason I believe that temperature must be solid is from my experience raising animals.  When a baby goat is delivered and is not thriving, if you give it milk, the milk will curdle in its stomach and it will die.  You must get the babies temperature up before it can process anything

The very first thing I would do for a cold baby is put them in a bath of water as hot as I could keep my hand in.  Only after their temperature raised to (101 degrees, for a goat)   would I begin other life sustaining treatments including keeping their temp up with a heat lamp or heating pad.

This is the same experience that I had with my body.  When I was deathly sick, I had to get my heat back.  I did the same for me as for the baby goats with hot water, heat lamps and heating pads.  As I was doing all this I learned of the "Wilsons Temperature Syndrome" and started supplementing as the book teaches.

So long answer to short but IMO, very appropriate observation on your part Y, is yes, IMO the bodies temperature must be 98.6 degrees, or very close to that for it to function well.  And IMO if it is not holding solidly then that would be the very first symptom that I would address as I did for my baby goats and for myself.

I do believe that my bodies ability to stabilize its core temperature has been one of the primary reasons that I am seeing strong and steady recovery.  I thank my first ND for insisting that I read "Wilson's Temperature Syndrome" and for holding my hand through the beginning of my scholarship to recovering my health.  And now I thank the MP for taking me from there to where I am today.   So far, so good!



____________________
MP Start Sept'10 | Borreliosis/Lyme, Bartonella, Erlicilosis, Mycoplasma, OA, FM, CFS, Hypothyroid | migrating joint pain, fatigue, low body temp, |Start 25D=29 Last 25D=5.1 ng/mL Jan'14
Sallie Q
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 Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2012 21:13

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my temp has been low for ever
I read in an anti candida recovery book about low temperature being a sign of candida, so I did the one year program and my health improved, but not as much as it has here,

when I spoke to the former doctor about thyroid imbalance, I had to lean on her for a second check before she would prescribe thyroxin, again that helped but did not cure the CFS [of course]



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ARFconference MPsep'08(PtBreak20mgx2-3day)depressn70, br.cancer90, ?BCC/Bowens05,Sjogren08|Sx CFS,fog,stroke,RA 25D=9ng/ml_Mar'13 Med. myth
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 Posted: Wed Feb 1st, 2012 21:24

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y wrote:  I don't think many people post their average temperature when they start the MP.
I don't think many people know what their core temperature is so they can post it.

One thing that I have noticed throughout my years of visiting the doctors is that they take my temperature every time I go but they will not notice if it is low.  They only take note if it is high and mine never was.  It is only if I ask that they will tell me what it actually is.

I have asked what my temp read past visits but the doctor says that their notes state that it was normal or not elevated.  I was never able to get a number. 

If anyone wants to take a temperature test:
1. First get a good thermometer 
2. Take temperature every mid-day at the same time of day for 3 days in a row

If it is low (below 98.6) Wilson of "Wilson's Temperature Syndrome" believes it is due to a malfunctioning thyroid.  For me that equaled hypothyroidism. 



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MP Start Sept'10 | Borreliosis/Lyme, Bartonella, Erlicilosis, Mycoplasma, OA, FM, CFS, Hypothyroid | migrating joint pain, fatigue, low body temp, |Start 25D=29 Last 25D=5.1 ng/mL Jan'14
NWLinda
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 Posted: Thu Feb 2nd, 2012 22:17

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Y,

I think you are so correct about the body temp needing to be 98.6 in order for other processes to work right. Thank you for posting that!

My thyroid has been low since about 1994 but it got up to 98.6 one day a couple of weeks ago when I got sick. Too bad it didn't stay there for more than a day.

Just to clarify, we are talking about oral temp, not underarm temp, right?



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Linda
hypothyroid, otosclerosis, possible sarcoidosis in lungs, skin & one eye, pyroluria, low cortisol, heart palps. 8/10: 25D: 44, 1,25D:76 pg/mL; Ph I:8/24/10; Ph2:1/11; break from MP:3/11-10/11. 12/29/11: 25D: 15ng/mL. 1,25D: 42.1 pg/mL
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 Posted: Sat Feb 4th, 2012 19:08

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I have been talking about oral temp but I guess you could use the other ways if you like. ;)



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MP Start Sept'10 | Borreliosis/Lyme, Bartonella, Erlicilosis, Mycoplasma, OA, FM, CFS, Hypothyroid | migrating joint pain, fatigue, low body temp, |Start 25D=29 Last 25D=5.1 ng/mL Jan'14
Chris
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 Posted: Sat Feb 18th, 2012 05:43

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One thing that I have noticed throughout my years of visiting the doctors is that they take my temperature every time I go but they will not notice if it is low.  They only take note if it is high and mine never was.  It is only if I ask that they will tell me what it actually is.

That was my experience too.   For years with sarcoid, I felt feverish if it got to 98.6.  And since I had a bit of dry mouth, I'm pretty sure the newer electronic thermometers didn't get the right heat flow for a good reading. 



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sarcoid diagnosed 1991, probably started 1983
D25/1,25: Mar04 17/80, Sep04 12/50, Nov04 8/23, Jan05 9/39 May05 6/27; in phase3; fevers, muscle pain, tinnitus, depression, mental-fog, IBS, carpal-tunnel, fatigue, osteopenia
NWLinda
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 Posted: Sat Feb 18th, 2012 17:58

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I think the underarm temp is generally a little lower than the oral temp.

Also, I don't think the digital thermometers are as accurate. I still use the old-fashioned mercury thermometer. Still can't seem to get my temp up past 97.6 or so, orally, though except for those few days when I was sick.

Freddie, I'm glad to read that you have raised your temp up to 98.6 or close to it, after 6 years on the MP. Your temp was SO low! Six years of doing the MP takes a LOT of patience, in my opinion. Glad it has paid off!

After stopping the abx and Benicar a couple of weeks ago, my immune system seems to be working (somewhat? a lot? perfectly? who knows!) I'm getting IP which is just mild, but constant, fullness and slight aches at a level of about 2 or 3/10 most of the time with an occasional shooting pain in my ears up to 7/10. I even had some achiness in my upper back (probably my lungs) a few times. I presume that was IP, too.

One thing I really like about the MP is that it doesn't really matter if you have a name for your bugs or not - the MP kills them all. I have symptoms of sarcoidosis but also symptoms of Lyme Disease, Babesia, Bartonella, and some other nasty bugs. Bartonella is known for causing ear problems, exactly what those are, I don't know yet. Hopefully, my immune system is killing all the bugs - time will tell.

I hope you're all doing well!

Bye for now,
Linda :)



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Linda
hypothyroid, otosclerosis, possible sarcoidosis in lungs, skin & one eye, pyroluria, low cortisol, heart palps. 8/10: 25D: 44, 1,25D:76 pg/mL; Ph I:8/24/10; Ph2:1/11; break from MP:3/11-10/11. 12/29/11: 25D: 15ng/mL. 1,25D: 42.1 pg/mL
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 Posted: Sat Feb 18th, 2012 18:10

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HI LINDA & ALL

This is Fred in WV.  My temp seems to run normal after ther Marshall Protocol.  But I must add that starting in Dec 1978 I had some temps that ran high and was put into the hospital for the first one I had.  My temp was 104F and was in the hospital for 1 week.  The doctor told me he did not know why I  had this.  This was before I was diagnosed with sarc.

I had about 4 or 5 times that I would lay down in the floor in front of the fire place to try to get warm do to my temp being so hi.  But have not had any of these either.  So the thyroid can cause temps to go high or low, mine being do to the sarc.  These come under the heading of UNKNOWN HIGH TEMPS in the doctor books.

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in Sarcoidsosis
Freddie



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Freddie: dx-sarc 2/82 lymph; skin, eyes, joints, esophagus, intestines, spleen, heart,lungs-25D-7; 125-D43
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 Posted: Sun Feb 19th, 2012 18:55

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I was wondering if anybody on the MP has had a thyroidectomy prior to starting the MP. I had one in 2000 due to 27 nodules on the thyroid which I now believe was due to th1 inflammation and should have never been taken out.

I will be on the MP one year next month and have had severe sweating and chills all through the MP. I had tsh tested this month and had to lower synthroid from .88 to .75 due to labs being off. Is this due to the body changing because of mp or higher dosage of Benicar every 4 hours?

If anyone has had a thyroidectomy I would love to talk to you.

Best to everyone,

Debbie



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MP start Mar'11 | FM, possible Sjogren's, IBS, Hypothyroid, Thyroidectomy, EBV | pain, numbness, fatigue Last 25 D- June 2014- 15
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 Posted: Mon Feb 20th, 2012 02:11

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jasmine -- http://www.marshallprotocol.com/view_topic.php?id=9606&forum_id=35&highlight=thyroidectomy+

Jen Hicks -- http://www.marshallprotocol.com/view_topic.php?id=7519&forum_id=35&highlight=thyroidectomy+



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Debz
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 Posted: Thu May 10th, 2012 22:50

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NWLinda wrote:Maybe combining the MP with Dr. Fuhrman's diet is the way for me, and possibly others, to go. I wonder if there are any other Mpers out there who have had the same or similar experience combining the MP with Dr. Fuhrman's diet.
I bought one bunch of parsley and ate it raw over the course of 4 days, and thought my gut was herxing at level 5-7. This continued during the 10 hour drive to a medical conference and for a total of 2 weeks.  I found a paperback book at the cancer thrift shop for 50 cents, called "Patient Heal Thyself" by Jordan S. Rubin, N.M.D., C.N.C. who looked like a Nazi war camp victim on the cover.  He healed himself 20 yrs ago of Crohn's Disease with the "Maker's Diet" its biblical. So I bought raw Greens and blended them into with my mango juice and ate my fruits & vegees raw this week. My gut is working 3x a day, I have more  energy, and the gut inflammation has settled down. The chlorophyll kills bad bacteria in the gut, so that's why dogs eat grass! Jordan is founder of Garden of Life's "Perfect Food" &  Amazon sells powdered or capsuled greens. I thought this would help my fema camp brother tremendously. He is a stroke victim that recently received Hepa B & 4 other vaccines. He is being fed sugar, high carbs, soy, processed foods, beverages.. so acidity keeps bugs alive & flourishing; while the body chemicals can't function below 98.6 due to lack of fruits & vegees for alkalinity-bug die off, resulting in a low thyroid & a 40 lb wt gain. His acid reflux meds/psyco drugs have been lowering his enzymes for 15 yrs. I certainly couldn't of saved my life sleeping on a 2" mat at 120 degrees for 3 yrs either.
Wish me luck!   ~Debz



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Collagen Disorder,Herpes1,Dysthymic,Uteral Scleroderma-02 liver neoplasm,Sarcoid Lung-08,Diabetes-13|Ph1 4/08, 2/09 25D=8.8| ABC of MP| MPKB[/url]/
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 Posted: Fri May 11th, 2012 05:45

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Hi Debz,

I bought one bunch of parsley and ate it raw over the course of 4 days, and thought my gut was herxing at level 5-7. So I bought raw Greens and blended them into with my mango juice and ate my fruits & vegees raw this week. My gut is working 3x a day, I have more energy, and the gut inflammation has settled down. The chlorophyll kills bad bacteria in the gut, so that's why dogs eat grass!

I am not sure how to read your post in this thyroid-med thread.
However be aware of the fact greens may contain a lot substances which may interact with the innate immune system. For example mango and parsley? (along with other greens/fruits) conatain CGA!

I also doubt chlorophyll to be an anti bacterial? (I can be wrong!) I always thought it would just be a matrix for lactobacteria.



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MP start Nov'11 (no breaks) | CFS sympt '08 ; food-allergies ,-intolerances ; low thyroid ; insomnia ; neuro symptoms| homebound '10, '11| last 25D= 20 ng/L mar'12
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 Posted: Fri May 11th, 2012 09:14

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Hi,
I had underactive thyroid for about 30 years (had tests back then with very low readings) and been on thyroxine (synthetic T4) for a decade (with tests stabalised at the top of the range). I have been on MP for over 18 months and new TM’s prediction of thyroid quickly returning to normal function once the MP was under way but was too afraid to stop it (as it has kept me alive for the last 10 years – I was almost finished before I started it). This last Xmas I decided to take the plunge, probably somewhat kamikaze-style, I just stopped it cold turkey (at the same time I also went to Q4 hours on the Benicar). I don’t suppose this is the recommended way to do it but I have been in a belief state of ‘nothing left to lose’ for quite a few years now so I just went for it. I had no ill effects (that I could tell apart from my normal daily high IP) and if anything since then have been feeling somewhat better (but still with normal daily high IP). I have not yet had another thyroid test but I think I would know about it if the function had gone back to its original low levels. Its one less pill to take thus adding another factor of complication of interaction, so now just have the Benicar doing its thing with no other interference!



____________________
MP start October 2010 (no breaks). HYPOTHYROID + CFS for 25 years. key symptoms = fatigue, brain fog. 25D (ng/mL) 03/12 =9.16, 03/13=7.92, 10/13=10.56, 01/14=12.72, 03/14=10.68, 05/14=13.28, 07/14=12.20, 08/14=16.96, 10/14=17.68
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 Posted: Tue May 15th, 2012 19:42

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jezzer wrote: Hi,
I had underactive thyroid I have been in a belief state of ‘nothing left to lose’ for quite a few years now so I just went for it. I have not yet had another thyroid test but I think I would know about it if the function had gone back to its original low levels. Its one less pill to take thus adding another factor of complication of interaction, so now just have the Benicar doing its thing with no other interference!
I'm with You ~ Debz



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Collagen Disorder,Herpes1,Dysthymic,Uteral Scleroderma-02 liver neoplasm,Sarcoid Lung-08,Diabetes-13|Ph1 4/08, 2/09 25D=8.8| ABC of MP| MPKB[/url]/

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