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Circadian Rhythm and Immunity
 Moderated by: Dr Trevor Marshall  

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seanlane
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 Posted: Tue Feb 21st, 2012 15:29

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17059498


Prof Erol Fikrig, who conducted the study at Yale University, said they had found a "direct molecular link between circadian rhythms and the immune system", which could have "important implications for the prevention and treatment of disease".

He added: "It does appear that disruptions of the circadian clock influence our susceptibility to pathogens."


This is interesting in that most of the people I know on the MP who still succumb to colds/sore throats etc. are the ones whose sleeping schedule is erratic due to insomnia.



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Sallie Q
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 Posted: Sat Feb 25th, 2012 21:03

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not to mention DH (not on MP)
schedule erratic due to late night TV :-(



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Claudia
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 Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2012 18:02

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After years of MP treatment and lifestyle, I find that my energy peaks 2 hours after sunset... sunlight still seems to affect me.
I am torn between trying to sleep when I'm "supposed to" and just carrying on like a vampire because it works for me. The biggest risk for me is burning the candle at both ends by getting up early (because I have an appointment or whatever). I think not getting enough sleep is more harmful in the long run. (Rather than exactly when I get it.)

BTW - Traditional Chinese Medicine has had a theory of the "body clock" for thousands of years. It describes 12 two-hour sections of time, each relating to a set of organs. Between 1am and 5am the Liver and Lungs' energy are peaking. I wonder if this would correlate with any observations in those studies...



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MP Phase1 23Mar_06; Phase2 July 10_06; Phase3 Nov 4_06. Dx Thyroiditis (Thyroxine); arthritis; glaucoma; CFS (1988-92);Kidney & bladder probs., Osteopenia -2.5, Feb06 1,25D=43.3; Aug07 1,25D=27.5; Feb06 25D=44; Mar08 25D=16.4; Apr2012 25D=38, Apr2014
Dr Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2012 21:19

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Good to hear from you again, Claudia :) :)

Body clock is one of the last mechanisms to repair, it seems. Shorter periods of refreshing sleep seem the best one can hope for.

However, you should be getting to the point now where your stress level has dropped enough so you can put your head down and work for 12 hours or so? :)
 

Rico
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 Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2012 22:04

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Interesting about body clock being one of the last things to resolve as that's one thing both my wife and I are having constant issues with. She's been on the MP for 8 years and I close to 6.

Rico



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Dogster
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 Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2012 22:20

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". . . body clock one of the last things to repair . .  ."   Not for me it seems.  It shifted earlier on.  What i am still waiting for is changes in sensitivity to minute amounts of particulates, and the immune system to handle flu and/or cold.  Still way too many in number and severity.  Also need stamina and consistency.



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CFS lyme RSD: pain migraine| tylenol fioricet flexeril tramadol temazepam| acidoph guaif/cold| Q| Cut D/exp Feb05| NoIR Mar05| June05 Comm Beni Q8H| July05 mino| Jan06 PH2| Aug06 1,25D=29 25D=17|
Dr Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15th, 2012 02:19

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Dogster, I am concerned about whether Tramadol affects healing. Have we had that discussion before?

..Trevor..

Claudia
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15th, 2012 06:05

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Hi Trevor!
:D yes indeed, I can work and am trying to get my fitness back these days although "everything hurts" in the morning, and I'm not getting any younger. It's just that I can't do much of it in the daytime.
I used to be such a morning person, but nowadays I spend most of the day mooching around and then I really start getting things done around sunset. I can run, garden, clean house, then when everyone else is sleeping, I'm working at freelance journalism into the wee hours. I can get 12 good hours out of a day, but they start at 2pm!
During the day physical exertion brings on fatigue and mental exertion is hampered by brain fog or depression. I can treat both easily with my perfect drug combination: coffee & ibuprofen, but we all know that's not good for every day use, so I keep it for special occasions. ;)

I bet there are lots of us MPers out there who have become night-owls, but I do wish I could revert one day to that virtuous "early to bed, early to rise" life!:D
I should add that I'm not on Benicar these days; but no problems with colds/flu/infections as was the case pre-MP. So my immune system is much improved but still not perfect.
Half-way there and always grateful to the MP team!
Claudia



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MP Phase1 23Mar_06; Phase2 July 10_06; Phase3 Nov 4_06. Dx Thyroiditis (Thyroxine); arthritis; glaucoma; CFS (1988-92);Kidney & bladder probs., Osteopenia -2.5, Feb06 1,25D=43.3; Aug07 1,25D=27.5; Feb06 25D=44; Mar08 25D=16.4; Apr2012 25D=38, Apr2014
Dogster
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15th, 2012 18:17

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HI again, and Dr. Marshall,

i hardly ever take tramadol anymore (was mostly for leg, it doesnt pain that much anymore:D).  I do take fiorcet for migraines as needed (and one of the main triggers for that is particulate exposure) (and very tiny amounts at that which is very life restrictive) and/or flu/cold.

As for the temazepam for sleep havent needed that regularly for a loooong time.  I take it occasionally, such as when flu hits (can trigger insomnia), or get terrific migraine that doesnt respond to fioricet.  I noticed my last bottle was dated 2010 or early 2011 (a bottle of 30!).

The pariculate trigger can be very tiny, such as just wiping off 3 dusty pieces of furniture.  It may trigger right away or couple hours later, go into wipe-out then migraine, and almost always have to sleep it off over night.  Even the next day will have cognitive flattening (yes, not just pain but neuro effects).

Yesterday i "rode" an electric bike just about 12 small blocks (and that was enough to trigger the aforementioned cycle).  Actual pedal bike would be worse, as breathe more particulates.  With the furniture dusting, even if hold breath, just the particulates hitting eyes and nose are enough to trigger whole pain/cognitive cycle.

One change i can note is that when this cycle used to happen, i would be thrown into the "wired/tired" cycle as well as a pain/cognitive cycle, which means a could NOT sleep.  Now, maybe 2 to 6 hours later i crash, fall into a heavy sleep and long with no sleep meds. . . .   So that's a better body response, but no cigar yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I slept more as a kid and teen and young adult than most folks, so now i see what my body was doing . . . .trying to adjust for an ineffective immune system . . . .

 



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CFS lyme RSD: pain migraine| tylenol fioricet flexeril tramadol temazepam| acidoph guaif/cold| Q| Cut D/exp Feb05| NoIR Mar05| June05 Comm Beni Q8H| July05 mino| Jan06 PH2| Aug06 1,25D=29 25D=17|
fibro
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15th, 2012 19:36

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Trevor said:
I am concerned about whether Tramadol affects healing. Have we had that discussion before?


I would not be at all surprised if Tramadol has negative effects.  I had been given some Tramadol by the dentist which had remained unused as I didn't feel I needed them. Long before I started the MP I was aching (fibromyalgia) particularly badly one day and decided to try the Tramadol to get some temporary relief. I took the recommended amount. They made me feel extremely ill.
 Tramadol is metabolised via glucuronidation. I know I have Gilbert's syndrome in which glucuronidation is deficient. My suspicion is that Gilbert's syndrome may not be the harmless genetically inherited quirk that it is generally made out to be but in fact another of the Th1 spectrum of conditions. This is supported by the fact that many of the symptoms associated with Gilbert's are similar to those of Th1 disease. There could be many people diagnosed as suffering from fibromyalgia who in fact have Gilbert's syndrome and are therefore poor at detoxifying drugs such as Tramadol.

fibro



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MP start Dec'11 (no breaks) | Fibromyalgia, Lyme | propriospinal myoclonus, calf pain, insomnia, post nasal drip, fatigue, malaise, diplopia, swollen lymph nodes in neck, carpal tunnel | last 25D= 1.5 ng/mL Dec'05
Dr Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15th, 2012 20:07

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Claudia said "I'm not getting any younger"

Well I am still on Benicar, and still recovering, and I am feeling younger and more energetic than I ever remember. More energy and focus than at High School. Health is an amazing thing... :) :)

Glad to hear you are still getting the (journalistic) copy out... at least you will be awake when the copy editors do their final paste-up. Oh, wait, maybe newspapers don't run that way any more LOLOL :)

..Trevor..
 

Dr Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15th, 2012 20:11

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Dogster,
It really is unusual for the 'allergy' sensitivities to have not disappeared in 6 years of MP therapy, so I was beginning to wonder if one of the drugs was a problem.

Try working through drugs and food and etc with one of the moderators to make sure there is nothing known to retard recovery. Your progress report is the best place to do that.

Have you had a 25-D test recently? We now know that is the important one. Luckily, it is also the cheaper test :)

..Trevor..
 

chef bama
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 Posted: Fri Mar 16th, 2012 06:57

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My circadian cycle has shifted in the last few months so I wake up about a half hour before sunrise and do my best reading and brain work before noon. I've always been a "sleep til noon" person, so this is a highly unusual development.



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lung granuloma, 4.5cm calcified subcarinal lymph node; 10/09 25D=11 1,25D=35; eliminated D foods 10/09; NoIRs & low light 11/09; started benicar 12/09, started mino 5/2010, 25D=5 9/2010

 Current time is 13:43



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