 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Linda J
member
|
Posted: Wed May 16th, 2012 03:27 |
|
| I had an argument with the dentist that I saw today. He wants me to take antibiotics prophylactically before getting my teeth cleaned, because I have had a diagnosed mitral valve prolapse. I tried to explain that antibiotics are no longer required for people with MVP, but he insisted that was an old recommendation from 2007, and that the ADA has been waffling back and forth about the issue since then, and said that they currently are recommending antibiotics. So I have been trying to find something more recent than 2007 to be able to show him to convince him because I don't want to have to take prophylactic antibiotics. I've been digging all over the Internet, and not finding anything. Does anyone know if there have been any more recent changes than 2007 for the ADA's recommendations about prophylactic antibiotics for people with MVP? I can't find anything that says that they changed their minds about the 2007 decision to no longer recommend prophylactic antibiotics for people with MVP, so I don't think the dentist has any grounds to stand on, but he thinks he's the expert, and doesn't want to budge. But I'm hoping that if I can show him some proof, he'll have to relent.
____________________
Lyme thyroiditis IBS MVP PTSD MCS SAM-e Claratin low lux NoIRs 25D<4 (Oct 18 2011)
|
Linda J
member
|
Posted: Wed May 16th, 2012 18:19 |
|
I’m going to answer my own post, because I did a little bit more digging around after posting, and came up with the following:
http://tinyurl.com/6uvf54r
This is the American Heart Association’s web site on Mitral Valve Prolapse, which is the heart condition that I have been diagnosed with, and the reason the dentist is insisting that I take prophylactic antibiotics. The web site was updated February 21, 2012, which is this year, so it’s current, and indicates that they don’t recommend prophylactic antibiotics for people with MVP.
http://www.ada.org/2157.aspx
This is the American Dental Associations web site on antibiotic prophylaxis. The web site is copyrighted 2012, so I am assuming it is current. It, also states that they don’t recommend prophylactic antibiotics for MVP patients.
I’ve printed up both web pages to take to my dentist, to give to him, and I hope that he’ll accept the ADA’s and AHA’s guidelines.
____________________
Lyme thyroiditis IBS MVP PTSD MCS SAM-e Claratin low lux NoIRs 25D<4 (Oct 18 2011)
|
Paisleykilt
Member*
|
Posted: Wed May 16th, 2012 18:39 |
|
Good finds. Well done, Linda! 
Hope the teeth-cleaning is uneventful.
You've just saved others lots of time if this happens to them. 
Last edited on Wed May 16th, 2012 18:40 by Paisleykilt
____________________
MP start May'11 (no breaks) | Lyme Disease/CFS/Fibromyalgia (depending which specialist to believe) | muscle/joint pain, severe fatigue, neurological symptoms | last 25D= 11.2 ng/mL Jan.'13
|
TXPam
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 14th, 2011 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 262 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 17th, 2012 16:01 |
|
Gum Recession & possible connections to bruxism, SLS, reflux, OCD, diabetes, & bacteria
For most of my adult life, I've battled gum recession & had gum grafts. Though overall dental health was helped by the grafts; by brushing & flossing correctly/gently after meals; & by avoiding acidic & sugary foods, the recession decreased, but remained.
A couple of years, before starting the MP, recession in my (non-crowned) molars increased dramatically, while other gingival losses remained stable. On the digestive front - I'd developed severe reflux & coincidentally, began grinding my teeth during the day (& maybe at night?). But I made no mental connections amongst these situations.
After being on the MP for over a year now (and with the reflux hugely improved) I drummed up the courage to see a periodontist yesterday. Though the molars' recession is still substantial, she said the tissue was well-connected to the teeth & she saw no need for intervention. Yeah!
I'd like to think that being on the MP has helped to preserve this "gingival connection". And I suspect the recession is bacteria-related, since my crowned molars have perfectly plump & healthy gingiva surrounding them.
Returning from the dentist, I researched more on gum recession, to understand why the molars were more affected. I began at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gum_recession
It was surprising to read that both bruxism, and sensitivity to the toothpaste ingredient, sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS), were mentioned. Clicking on the word, "bruxism" brought me to this link, where OCD and reflux problems were also cited:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruxism
Additionally, I found this study discussing nocturnal bruxism & reflux:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14655925
And this link was interesting, regarding diabetes & gum recession:
http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/healthy-teeth-1/answers-periodontal
Typically, the molars are more affected by bruxism, which might further explain my situation. And while I'm looking forward to Olmesartan helping to preserve & restore my gum health, am also aware that my OCD tendencies may be feeding into bruxing, so will look into getting a night guard to see if that helps. Also, am making a huge effort to cease tooth-grinding during the day.
Last edited on Thu May 17th, 2012 16:14 by TXPam
____________________
MP start Jan'11 (no breaks) | Lyme, Breast Cancer, Hiatal Hernia, GERD | touch sensitivity, food sensitivities, MCS, high glucose w/ sweet taste, fatigue, lung/nose inflammation. |Initial 25D= 21 ng/mL Nov'10|Last 25D= 9 ng/mL June'11
|
Cynthia Schnitz
Board Staff
| Joined: | Thu Dec 25th, 2008 |
| Location: | N., USA |
| Posts: | 1549 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 18th, 2012 18:21 |
|
Prior to starting the MP, I would brush with the hardest tooth brush I could find, mostly to remove the heavy plaque, but also, it seemed the gums just didn't feel good unless they got this heavy stimulation every day. On the MP, I had a section of gum recede on the lower left, to where I could have a tooth pick get lost in it, but no change on the right side. I have assumed that I had gum infection, CWD or otherwise, on the lower left, and that the loss of gum is due to the immune system clearing the infection out, and loosing swelled tissue or tissue needing apoptosis.
Now, 3.5 years later on the MP, this recession area is back to normal, whatever that is, but at least the right and left sides are the same, and a tooth pick only barely can enter the area. I also don't seem to have the same need to stimulate my gums.
Cynthia
____________________
MP start 10/08 (no breaks) | Spondylitis 97, early Diverticulosis 98, early AMD 08, Calcium anomaly 95, TypeII Diabetes(?) 02 | 25D=10.1ng/ml 12/12, (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) | My progress
|
TXPam
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 14th, 2011 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 262 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat May 19th, 2012 13:06 |
|
Cynthia, it's encouraging to read of your dental success story! That makes sense - that if periodontal problems were occurring, your gums might have wanted stimulation. Sounds like your gums had their own 'herx' when you first started the MP. Interestingly, my most severe recession is right where yours was - on the lower left molars.
And I build plaque & calculus, too - worst on the inside of the lower centrals. Seems like gravity distributes lots of food residue & saliva to the lower teeth. Short of getting a weekly hygenist's cleaning, I've been using a dental scraper to remove everything above the gumline. As long as I'm careful to not disturb the gums or cause bleeding, this has kept the centrals from receding at all, which they had done in the past with just the twice-yearly hygenist cleans.
So far, my gums (though receded in areas) look & feel fairly healthy, so I suspect my bacteria may be most concentrated along the teeth or in the supporting mandibular bone. But that's just a hunch. However, I'll allow for changes due to gingival herxing, so won't panic & will ride it out. Thanks.
Last edited on Sat May 19th, 2012 13:51 by TXPam
____________________
MP start Jan'11 (no breaks) | Lyme, Breast Cancer, Hiatal Hernia, GERD | touch sensitivity, food sensitivities, MCS, high glucose w/ sweet taste, fatigue, lung/nose inflammation. |Initial 25D= 21 ng/mL Nov'10|Last 25D= 9 ng/mL June'11
|
Cynthia Schnitz
Board Staff
| Joined: | Thu Dec 25th, 2008 |
| Location: | N., USA |
| Posts: | 1549 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat May 19th, 2012 22:59 |
|
I have extremely heavy plaque deposition. I can have enough plaque to drive me crazy in 24 hours. Take a look at this thread, as there is a way to remove the plaque without going to the dental hygienist, and it works great.
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum48/14788.html
I have a suspicion that the plaque builds on the lower inside, and for me, on the upper outside, of teeth because of where the saliva ducts dump into the mouth. How about a theory that the bacteria forming the biofilm that is the plaque, are bacteria escaping from the immune system out the salivary ducts. It would explain why a bad case of plaque formation pre-MP would go ballistic during the MP.
Cynthia
____________________
MP start 10/08 (no breaks) | Spondylitis 97, early Diverticulosis 98, early AMD 08, Calcium anomaly 95, TypeII Diabetes(?) 02 | 25D=10.1ng/ml 12/12, (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) | My progress
|
TXPam
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 14th, 2011 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 262 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun May 20th, 2012 16:03 |
|
Two great links! Holding the brush at a 45-degree angle just above the gumline & brushing in tiny circles were exactly my periodontist's instructions. And (for my situation) she suggested the softest bristles.
In the video link, especially liked the dentist's advice to use a smaller/child's toothbrush. Using a tiny brush head has made it easier for me to locate the gumline accurately.
Also, sometimes use a dry cotton swab after brushing & flossing, to gently polish away hard-to-detect residue from messier foods...and the periodontist said that's fine. Reminds me of hand-washing dishes with my mum when she (the washer) would miss a spot & I (the dryer) would wipe it away.
And am seriously liking your theory about saliva being the bacteria-dumping culprits. Sounds highly plausible & would explain a lot.
Last edited on Sun May 20th, 2012 16:03 by TXPam
____________________
MP start Jan'11 (no breaks) | Lyme, Breast Cancer, Hiatal Hernia, GERD | touch sensitivity, food sensitivities, MCS, high glucose w/ sweet taste, fatigue, lung/nose inflammation. |Initial 25D= 21 ng/mL Nov'10|Last 25D= 9 ng/mL June'11
|
Tapsa
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 11th, 2012 |
| Location: | Finland |
| Posts: | 25 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jun 28th, 2012 10:51 |
|
Hi all,
I have been on MP since January '12 (still olmesartan only) and my progress has been rather as expected with periods of increased immunopathology like flu-like symptoms, joint/muscle pain and some numbness and brain fog. Also interestingly my 'old companion' hay fever returned in June after having been away since my CFS started in March '09 so it seems that my immune system has already started to function better.
At the end of May I got a really bad tooth ache, and after several days with really intense pain and two visits to a dentist a root canal work was started on 1st June (the tooth was opened and temporarily filled with something including an antibiotic substance). The tooth continued to be rather painful for the following weeks, and on 18th June the whole cheekbone and cheek muscle started to get painful and somehow numb, too.
On June 20th the root canal work continued so that blood vessels and nerves were removed and a new temporary filling with (again) some antibiotic was planted there. The next visit is scheduled for 30th July. I'm still continuing to have some pain in the cheekbone, and the cheek muscle still contines to be numb as if the nerves would be inflammated.
So I'm worried about this and wondering what should be done. The dentist suggested having a course of non-MP abx unless the symptoms start resolving otherwise but I haven't taken that yet (I have a prescription for moxifloxacin, Avelox) and I'm not sure should I do that or not. As the temporary filling includes some antibiotic, can it be possible that the increase in symptoms is actually due to an increased IP reaction caused by the filling? How one can tell if this IP or a new active infection requiring non-MP abx?
Does anyone have similar experiences or suggestions what to do?
Best regards,
Tapsa
____________________
MP start Jan'12 (break Oct'12) | CFS/ME | fatigue, muscle and joint pain, numbness, severe reflux | last 25-D = 14 ng/ml, 1,25-D = 34.6 pg/ml, 30 Aug'12
|
minski2
Member
|
Posted: Thu Jun 28th, 2012 13:41 |
|
Had a somewhat similar experience last year with an old root canal.......very painful face and tooth and after several weeks the tooth just rotted out. No previous visible signs. I then went to the dentist and had the rest of the tooth removed. IMO the MP will resolve this issue, but you will lose your tooth. I have several more root canals and am just waiting for the MP to go after those bugs. Now I understand the bias against root canals. On the other hand I did have the use of that tooth for many more years! DECISIONS, DECISIONS........Dian
____________________
PTLDS,Hashimoto's Disease:INT.1-25D38,25D37;PH1Sept09,PH2Nov09,PH36/1/10 ;current 25D-6.3
|
marion villa
Health Professional
|
Posted: Thu Jun 28th, 2012 16:59 |
|
Hello
I have had dental nerve swelling in the past
It was painful but it was obly IP
Sometimes it is hard to figure out, more for a non mp d, no to say mpdentist!
The fluoroquinolones are MP ok, but i am not sure if you have an infection or not
Tell your dr to put OUT of oclussion that tooth, this isnt suppoused to touch with the contrary tooth
Good luck
____________________
Lupus, RA, erythema nosodum, skin ulcers, MP 11/07, little meloxicam, paracetamol, NoIRs, ,Ph 2 /20 april 2008,25D<4ng,ph 3/ 22 oct 2008.
Some sun sensitivity.
|
Tapsa
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 11th, 2012 |
| Location: | Finland |
| Posts: | 25 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2012 15:46 |
|
Thanks for the comments. Increased immunopathology unfortunately still continues. Also muscles surrounding my rt eye feel also numb and I had to start using eye drops (bepanthen) to help the uneasy feeling in the eye. Periodically the numbness has also spread to other parts of the body, including hands and legs. I should have asked the dentist what antibiotic the temporary filling includes but did not.. Do you know if these really can cause increased immunopathology during MP?
Tapsa
____________________
MP start Jan'12 (break Oct'12) | CFS/ME | fatigue, muscle and joint pain, numbness, severe reflux | last 25-D = 14 ng/ml, 1,25-D = 34.6 pg/ml, 30 Aug'12
|
marion villa
Health Professional
|
Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2012 16:08 |
|
I dont think so
As far as I know not abx use in canal feelings
In parodontic treatment, tetracycline is used, but not in canal ones!
Well it would used in a very small quantity.
You maybe having nerve herxing,not only dental ones
____________________
Lupus, RA, erythema nosodum, skin ulcers, MP 11/07, little meloxicam, paracetamol, NoIRs, ,Ph 2 /20 april 2008,25D<4ng,ph 3/ 22 oct 2008.
Some sun sensitivity.
|
Tapsa
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 11th, 2012 |
| Location: | Finland |
| Posts: | 25 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 08:24 |
|
marion villa wrote: As far as I know not abx use in canal feelings
Yes, I contacted my dentist and he told that the temporary filling includes eugenol and "biochalk" (40-50% solution of sodium hydroxide). The former is anti-inflammatory and the latter antibacterial. I lowered the olmesartan dosage and now the symptoms have weakened, so probably it was a ip reaction to the filling material.
Tapsa
____________________
MP start Jan'12 (break Oct'12) | CFS/ME | fatigue, muscle and joint pain, numbness, severe reflux | last 25-D = 14 ng/ml, 1,25-D = 34.6 pg/ml, 30 Aug'12
|
marion villa
Health Professional
|
Posted: Sat Jul 14th, 2012 13:57 |
|
Ok! Those I know
They are materials with mild desinfection properties
Like baking soda, vinegar would be
They are ok, no problem at all as they are no abx
I told you that might be an unconfortable IPR! It happened to me once like that
Good it has vanished
Have a nice day!
____________________
Lupus, RA, erythema nosodum, skin ulcers, MP 11/07, little meloxicam, paracetamol, NoIRs, ,Ph 2 /20 april 2008,25D<4ng,ph 3/ 22 oct 2008.
Some sun sensitivity.
|
Tapsa
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 11th, 2012 |
| Location: | Finland |
| Posts: | 25 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2012 09:08 |
|
My root canal was finalized on last Monday (July 30th) and interesting and odd things started happening after that. Firstly, the cheek pain and numbness (plus dry eye) symptoms jumped up again after gradually waning through July. And secondly, immediately the same evening I started getting migraine attacks with the typical optical signs followed by headache. Before this I didn't have similar migraines for about 20 yrs! Now four migraines within a week, and for the first time after starting MP in January I'm having real photophobia (bright lights seem to trigger migraines).
Again the same question: can this be attributed to immunopathology? Or can the immune system react so strongly on the new permanent filling material (gutta-percha)? (Can't help thinking the possibility that the dentist has made a mistake and managed to damage the trigeminus nerve somehow..)
Tapsa
____________________
MP start Jan'12 (break Oct'12) | CFS/ME | fatigue, muscle and joint pain, numbness, severe reflux | last 25-D = 14 ng/ml, 1,25-D = 34.6 pg/ml, 30 Aug'12
|
Frenchie
Member*
| Joined: | Sat Dec 19th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 232 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2012 09:31 |
|
Tapsa wrote: Again the same question: can this be attributed to immunopathology? Or can the immune system react so strongly on the new permanent filling material (gutta-percha)? (Can't help thinking the possibility that the dentist has made a mistake and managed to damage the trigeminus nerve somehow..)
Tapsa
It sounds very like IP. Why it should have followed the dental surgery is impossible to say, perhaps it was just the stress to the body, gutta percha isn't very reactogenic and what you describe doesn't sound like an allergic reaction. Hopefully as your mouth heals things will ease.
____________________
Gulf War Syndrome, 1,25D 62 pg/ml Oct09, Ph1Jan10, 25D 9 ng/ml Mar 13
|
Cynthia Schnitz
Board Staff
| Joined: | Thu Dec 25th, 2008 |
| Location: | N., USA |
| Posts: | 1549 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Aug 8th, 2012 19:44 |
|
| Any possibility the dentist disturbed some biofilm? If so, the immune system would react to the sudden presence of bacteria released from the biofilm. Cynthia
____________________
MP start 10/08 (no breaks) | Spondylitis 97, early Diverticulosis 98, early AMD 08, Calcium anomaly 95, TypeII Diabetes(?) 02 | 25D=10.1ng/ml 12/12, (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) | My progress
|
Tapsa
Member
| Joined: | Sun Mar 11th, 2012 |
| Location: | Finland |
| Posts: | 25 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 08:53 |
|
Cynthia Schnitz wrote: Any possibility the dentist disturbed some biofilm? If so, the immune system would react to the sudden presence of bacteria released from the biofilm. Cynthia
Hmm.. this sounds like a plausible explanation to me. I can now fully understand the warnings against dental work during early MP.
Tapsa
Last edited on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 08:54 by Tapsa
____________________
MP start Jan'12 (break Oct'12) | CFS/ME | fatigue, muscle and joint pain, numbness, severe reflux | last 25-D = 14 ng/ml, 1,25-D = 34.6 pg/ml, 30 Aug'12
|
marion villa
Health Professional
|
Posted: Thu Aug 9th, 2012 14:31 |
|
Just iPR! It is always nasty an uncomfortable
But Its part of the journey
You would have it in other way
Try some painkillers and MP meds adjust
And be patience
____________________
Lupus, RA, erythema nosodum, skin ulcers, MP 11/07, little meloxicam, paracetamol, NoIRs, ,Ph 2 /20 april 2008,25D<4ng,ph 3/ 22 oct 2008.
Some sun sensitivity.
|
Current time is 00:48 | Page:   1 2 3 4 5 6 |
|
|
|
|
