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Aussie Barb
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Posted: Tue Nov 9th, 2004 07:14 |
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Is the MP an applicable treatment for my disease or symptoms?
Th1 inflammatory diseases are characterized by the generation of Interferon-gamma and with it, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin-D in response to intracellular bacteria.
We are researching which diseases show scientific evidence that they are due to a Th1 immune system inflammatory response. There are hundreds of so-called 'autoimmune' diseases. Autoimmune is a misnomer since the body's immune system is not attacking itself. We use this term only because it is familiar and easily recognizable not because it is accurate.
Many common diseases like atherosclerosis are being recognised as having an inflammatory component. We can make an educated guess about which diseases would be more difficult to treat with the MP because the symptom exacerbation might be difficult to manage.
The decision to trial the MP with a new disease is one that is made by doctor and patient.
Same bacterial pathogenesis
"I disagree that Th1 patients each have different illnesses. I have seen no data to confirm this. Everything I see is that all the Th1 diagnoses spring from a common pathogenesis, a special adaptation of intra-phagocytic bacteria which allows them to evade phagocytosis by stimulating a Th1 response in the parasitized phagocytes.
"I personally believe that ALL the Th1 diseases result from the same bacterial pathogenesis. This belief is grounded in my understanding of how the bacteria directly drive the phagocytic biochemistry, causing the Th1 cytokine release.
"IMO, it is important for everybody to stop thinking about these Th1 syndromes as being separate and discrete diagnoses. IMO, all Th1 illness has a common pathogenesis, only the mix of symptoms varies from person to person, depending on bacterial species present, and the sequence of infection/coinfection.
"We are not all different. Th1 disease overrides ALL the issues of diet, location, exposure to pathogens, etc. We can see that by standing back and looking at ALL the folks on the Marshall Protocol. There are more similarities than differences, and it does not help recovery to focus on perceived differences.
"Sure, there is a variation in symptoms, in syndrome presentation, but the underlying cause, and therapy, looks to be the same.
Diagnosis
"I said that medical diagnosis was an imprecise art. Just about every diagnosis is likely to be incorrect, and is a judgment call. So it is not my personal experience which makes me question a diagnosis, any diagnosis, but the 'inside knowledge' of how imprecise the art of medical diagnosis really is. I always regard every diagnosis with suspicion, and every good clinician will keep a diagnosis under ongoing review."
MP applicability to other diseases
"The only data we have on psychiatric manifestations are the symptoms we see as the various patients heal, and they run the gamut and they all disappear as the patients recover.
"The problem I have with discussing applicability of the MP to ALS, or MS or Diabetes or even Parkinsons is our current lack of understanding of how serious the immune system reactions might be, and in what form they might become manifest.
"Consequently I try to focus on the diseases which we know respond well, and expand the list very slowly. I am always looking to link up with physicians who have these patients in a supportive atmosphere, preferably where 24/7 care is available from, for example, a mother/wife trained as a nurse, so that we can start to explore the outer limits of this Th1 pathogenesis.
..Trevor..
Assess the clinical picture
Apart from the Hypervitaminosis-D Symptoms and/or diagnosis being indicative, the way to find out if the Marshall Protocol may be applicable to any person or their disease status is to ask your Dr to test the D Metabolites. You can find the info for those tests here D-METABOLITES TESTS and submit the results for interpretation here.
"In my experience, relying solely on D panels, leads to missing a significant number of patients with Th1. Lab tests must be interpreted along with clinical assessments by a knowledgable MD. Just having a GP order under pressure a D panel will not lead to a true diagnosis and treatment." ~Greg Blaney, MD
Therapeutic probe
If unable to do the blood tests or if they are inconclusive, a therapeutic probe can be diagnostic. See What is a therapeutic probe?
If the disease process is advanced
The MP has an excellent safety record but it is still an experimental treatment plan. Many folks who are very symptomatic or who have been ill for a long time are doing well on the MP. But you should know that if symptoms are extremely debilitating or vital organs are severely compromised, it may be very difficult or even impossible to tolerate the immunopathology involved in the healing process. Patients should be aware there is a rare possibility that immunopathology will provoke a serious adverse event, especially if the disease process is well advanced.
At this point, it is impossible to know and list each disease that may be treatable with the Marshall Protocol.
Th1 inflammatory diseases and symptoms currently being treated with the Marshall Protocol include:
ALS (Lou Gehrig's)
Ankylosing Spondylitis
Asperger's
Back pain
Barrett's esophagus
Bipolar disorder
Candidiasis
Cardiac Arrythmia
Celiac disease
CFS / CFIDS / ME
Chronic Lyme/Borreliosis
Crohn's Disease
Diabetes insipidus
Diabetes type I
Diabetes type II
Dementia
Depression
Epilepsy
FM (Fibromyalgia)
Gastroesophageal reflux disease
Hashimoto's Thyroiditis
IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome)
Interstitial cystitis (IC)
Inflammatory bowel disease
Irritable bowel syndrome
Kidney stones
Lofgren's syndrome
Lupus In 'Overlap' With Other Connective Tissue Diseases
Mania
MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity)
Migraine headache
Morgellon's
Multiple Sclerosis
Myasthenia gravis
Neuropathy
OCD(Obsessive Compulsive Disorder)
Osteoarthritis
Panic attacks
Parkinsons
Pervasive Developmental Disorders- Not Otherwise Specified
POTS (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome)
Prostatitis
Psoriasis
Psoriatic arthritis
Raynaud's syndrome/phenomenon
Reactive Arthritis (Reiter Syndrome)
Restless leg syndrome
RSD (Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy)
Rheumatoid Arthritis
Sarcoidosis
Scleroderma
Sinusitis
Seasonal affective disease (SAD)
Sjogren's
Ulcerative colitis
Uveitis
Vertigo
Other Th1 diseases which should respond to the Marshall Protocol:
Alzheimer's
Anorexia Nervosa
Bulbous pemphigus
Cystic fibrosis
Macular degeneration
Polymyalgia rhuematica
Polymyositis
Schizophrenia
(Note: Any disease ending in "itis" is due to inflammation.)
Related FAQs:
Will the MP treat paresthesia and neuropathy?
Some of my family members appear to have Th1 inflammatory symptoms. What should they do?
Can a pregnant woman be on the Marshall Protocol?
Will the Marshall Protocol treat co-infections?
Will heavy metals or toxins hinder my recovery on the MP?
Which diagnostic tests do I need?
(Scroll down to next posts.)
Last edited on Fri May 30th, 2008 07:18 by
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| Depression| 24+ years not Dx| MP Aug04| ABC of MP| MP Search|
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Posted: Fri Jun 3rd, 2005 18:05 |
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filelink
Disease states from which L-forms have been isolated in pure culture
In her book Cell Wall Deficient Forms : Stealth Pathogens (3rd ed) famed L-form researcher Lida H. Mattman, in the Appendix on page 395 lists:
-Abscesses
-Brain abscesses
-Subdural abcesses felfine
-Arthritis
-Rheumatoid
-Crohn's Disease
-Endocarditis (20% of cases)
-Gonorrhea
-Loeffler's syndrome
-Lymphadenities
-Meningitis
-Mycobacteriosis
-Sarcoidosis organism
-Osteomyelitis
-Typical and Atrophy of marrow
-Peritonitis and salpingitis
-Pleurisy
-Postoperative thrombi
-Peritonitis
-Postorgan transplant--fatal pneumonia, organism reverted to pneumocococcus Tye 3
-Pyelonephritis, cystitis, and other urinary tract infections
-Rheumatic fever
-Septicemia--wide spectrum of organism
-Sterility of male -- human
-Stones in urinary bladder
-Streptobacillus moniliforms
-Infections in mice (1937)
-Infections in man
-Uveitis
-Whipple's Disease
Note: Usually only the L-form is isolated from Crohn's disease, leprosy, rheumatoid arthritis, sarcoidosis and uveitis.
All the Th1 diseases are likely caused by bacterial pathogens
What I presented at the Budapest conference was data which hinted that all the Th1 diseases, ranging from Diabetes to Sarcoidosis, are likely caused by bacterial pathogens, and a pathogenesis most probably describing the disease process. Here is the abstract to an earlier paper:
http://tinyurl.com/5rgmq
and the full text preprint from it
http://yarcrip.com/sarcoidosissuccumbs-preprint.htm
my slides from the recent Budapest presentation are at URL
http://autoimmunityresearch.org/autoimmunity2004/auto2004_slides.pdf
..Trevor..
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Posted: Fri Sep 2nd, 2005 02:15 |
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When the disease process is far advanced
We have many members who are very symptomatic or who have been ill for a long time who are doing well on the MP. But you should know that if the disease process has advanced to the point where symptoms are extremely debilitating or vital organs are severely compromised, it may be very difficult or even impossible to tolerate the immunopathology involved in the healing process.
The degree of illness greatly influences the patient's ability to withstand the Marshall Protocol recovery process. Unfortunately, for some people, the disease process has taken too great a toll on the body and recovery is impossible. There is no way to definitively determine this in advance. It will, ultimately, be up to the individual to decide what level of symptoms they are willing or able to tolerate and up to the doctor to monitor biological processes to make sure they stay within acceptable limits.
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Aussie Barb
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sun Sep 11th, 2005 04:21 |
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Determining if the MP is the correct treatment
If done correctly, the D-metabolites tests will reveal, at the very least, if the immune system response is Th1 dominant. The problem is that often labs do not handle the 1,25-D specimen correctly and the results are equivocal. See D-metabolites tests and Which diagnostic tests do I need?
The presence of Th1 symptoms and a previous 'intolerance' or 'allergy' to antibiotics suggests that the Marshall Protocol is the right treatment plan. People with Th1 inflammation commonly react to antibiotics. See I'm allergic to an antibiotic on the Protocol. Is there a substitute?
The MP can be used without testing the D metabolites if the doctor agrees. If Doc needs the labwork evidence of Th1 inflammation, then the expense of testing the D-metabolites is well worth the cost. See What is a therapeutic probe?
A mini therapeutic probe by avoiding all sources of Vitamin D, including foods, supplements and sun/lights costs little and may provide evidence the MP will work. Please see Should I avoid sun exposure and vitamin D while I'm waiting to start the MP?
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| Depression| 24+ years not Dx| MP Aug04| ABC of MP| MP Search|
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Posted: Sat Dec 31st, 2005 03:56 |
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Blood brain barrier
"The concept of the "blood-brain barrier" is meaningless in todays world of molecular genomics. We now understand that substances migrate through tissue by binding to receptor molecules (sometimes facilitator molecules). Although the study of this transport is still in its infancy, scientists are already investigating, for example, how mycobacteria penetrate the cell walls of white-cells (phagocytes), and they are finding that the proteins surrounding the ingress seem to be rich in several specific proteins, and, incidentally, rich in VDR (1,25 Vitamin D Receptor). The concept of tissue being some sort of "filter paper" has long since disappeared.
To drive a nail into the coffin of this "blood-brain-barrier" I would ask you to contemplate how the bacteria managed to cross this hypothetical barrier and infect the brain in the first place, if a small molecule like Olmesartan (of molecular weight approx 500) is supposed to be excluded?
IMO there never was any "blood-brain-barrier" and there certainly is little evidence to support that concept in the era of the genome."
..Trevor..
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Posted: Sat Jan 28th, 2006 05:42 |
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I wish those of us with FM and CFS had our own place to post samebutdifferentlink
"I once had a Calico Persian that was born in the same litter with bicolor red tabbies, bicolor and solid creams and bicolor blues. Each had a distinctive designation per CFA registration requirements and the expectation for breeding that each coat color (considered as well as generational background) might produce in subsequent breeding. But all were Persians, and beyond that, all were cats.
When I first came to the board I wanted to only read Sarcoidosis progress reports. Then, as I understood more about Th1, I began to wonder if the variant of CWD bacteria I developed, or the tick bite I knew about when I was a child, or my family background, or how long I had the bacteria in my system, or even the accuracy of initial diagnosis might make my own healing process unique or similar enough to only read about Sarcies. So now I look at things on the cat level (no offense to dog lovers).
The good news no matter what? The MP is for Th1."
jrfoutin
istheMPlink
scroll to next post: Symptom resolution is more important than diagnosis
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Aussie Barb
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Tue Apr 11th, 2006 17:31 |
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Symptom resolution is more important than diagnosis
More interesting than simple symptom similarities you may or may not find with those on this site with different diagnosis titles, is consistent resolution of of Th1 symptoms through the Marshall Protocol.
So the real question is not what name your doctor may call your ailment, but by what means it might resolve.
-Get your D metabolites tested, accurately. Insist on the test being handled correctly.
-Protect your eyes and change your diet and light exposure conditions.
-Talk to your doctor about a therapeutic probe if test results don't match your clinical presentation.
And of course, if you don't experience Jarisch-Herxheimer Reactions (JHR, or "Herx") on the Marshall Protocol medications, you can always go back to what you are doing now that you know isn't working for you.
Isn't it nice to be able to choose? ~jrfoutin
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| Depression| 24+ years not Dx| MP Aug04| ABC of MP| MP Search|
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Aussie Barb
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Posted: Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 21:08 |
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Mental Illness
MENTAL ILLNESS and Th1 inflammation
Autism
With the exception of fibrotic tissue deposited in the organs by years of disease, we have seen the body exhibit a miraculous ability to heal itself. The adults have recovered their brains, their memories, their cognition, decades of their lives. I don't see why we shouldn't expect the same phenomena of neuro-regeneration in children. There is one child, Matt, who has indeed exhibited such a recovery.
Anorexia nervosa, OCD
We have nobody with AN in this current cohort. Back in the 1970's some of the patients my research group were treating for infertility did have AN, and it is a Th1 disease (with excess Interferon gamma production).
However, our experience with 'similar' conditions, like OCD, has shown that it is often a tough task for folk to recover from them. We do have two OCD folk in the cohort, who were very, very ill, and they are recovering, but very slowly and with incredible fortitude.
As long as his/her 25-D levels are low enough, a therapeutic probe will quickly show immunopathology or not. I would be happy to chat with Doc if he calls. ..Trevor..
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| Depression| 24+ years not Dx| MP Aug04| ABC of MP| MP Search|
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Posted: Fri Feb 9th, 2007 05:14 |
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Heart Disease
"I doubt that "breaking old habits" and "improving your lifestyle" will do anything much to slow the decline of your heart health. Still, I wish you the best, and you know where to find us when you come to realize that the answers in cardiology are just about as elusive as they are in immunology, if not more so.
You may be interested in a Letter to the Editor of the BMJ I wrote a few days ago about atherosclerosis
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/331/7513/361
Yes, there is an emerging school of thought in mainstream Cardiology that atherosclerosis is caused by microbes, IMO the same microbes which we have found to be behind the Th1 diseases."
Dr. Trevor Marshall, PhD
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Posted: Fri Feb 9th, 2007 05:17 |
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Rheumatic diseases
Our Autoimmunity Reviews paper specifically identifies rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, and Parkinson's as Th1 diseases.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.autrev.2003.10.001
Fulltext preprint is at
http://yarcrip.com/sarcoidosissuccumbs-preprint.htm
Lupus In 'Overlap' With Other Connective Tissue Diseases
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Aussie Barb
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Posted: Fri May 11th, 2007 20:50 |
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New paradigms
Dr Marshall wrote:
I see you are trained in Health Sciences. It is going to be very tough for you to grasp, and understand, the new paradigms brought in as we reap the rewards of decoding the genome.
You have been taught that all diseases are discrete, and are fixated on your diagnosis/disease/syndrome as an entity. It is not an entity, it shares a common pathogenesis with the other Th1 diseases.
Please read the material on this site, and in particular, please watch the Science and Recovery sampler DVDs which are available to help you understand.
The solution is here, but you will need to read, and not go looking for others with the same diagnosis. That methodology (trying to talk with other patients) has not worked in the past, why should it work now. Please read, and only post when you have specific questions that folk can help you with. This is a huge study site, you are currently only looking at the small fraction of our 'iceberg' which is above the water. The moderators have to spend most of their time with that part of the iceberg 'under the water.' Please read, read and read...
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| Depression| 24+ years not Dx| MP Aug04| ABC of MP| MP Search|
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