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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 23:00 |
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Does a virus (HHV-6A) cause MS?
The viruses are easy to find, and possibly involved in the infectious cascade, but they are just a red-herring.
I have (limited) data now, including MS folks who are already responding to the MP, but I have no doubt that MS will succumb to the MP.
Here is an example of the type of study which had initially side-tracked me into thinking viruses might play a part in MS
http://www.primezone.com/newsroom/news.html?d=87395
But what these scientists are forgetting is that a monkey is not a human. Animal models have failed to predict human autoimmune disease time after time. So, while this study sounds very persuasive, it will fail to be replicated in man.
Note the sentence "an exceptionally strong, statistically significant association between HHV-6A and both multiple sclerosis and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is consistently seen." Well, we know they are 100% wrong with CFS, and the initial response of MS patients to the MP is showing them 100% wrong with MS as well.
There is a possibility I may be stating the lemma incorrectly, and HHV-6 variant-A might in fact be conditioning the immune system (through mutation) thus causing the CWD to run rampant. But the same outcome is in play - get rid of the CWD and you get rid of the disease.
..Trevor..
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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 23:05 |
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(filelink)
D-metabolite levels in MS
In this link you will find a study that has just been done to measure the 1,25D levels in people with MS. It looks like this is the first study to do so. http://tinyurl.com/a93yn
-I have emailed Dr Kragt some months ago, to ask when she will publish. She said the numbers have been gathered, but the analyses yet have to be done. I have told her that I expect the levels to be much higher. ~Frans
MS and bone loss
High prevalence of vitamin D deficiency and reduced bone mass in multiple sclerosis
Last edited on Sun Aug 24th, 2008 17:11 by Meg Mangin R.N.
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Aussie Barb
Research Team
| Joined: | Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 |
| Location: | Australia |
| Posts: | 19258 |
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Online
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Posted: Tue Dec 6th, 2005 03:57 |
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(filelink)
Diagnosis
MS is considered an "autoimmune disease," but the diagnosis is difficult because the symptoms of MS are not specific to MS, since they are consistent with other diseases as well. This article says, "no clinical and paraclinical investigation can distinguish with certainty MS from other conditions such as autoimmune or inflammatory diseases predominantly affecting the central nervous system. These other disorders include systemic lupus erythematosus, antiphospholipid syndrome, Behcet disease, Sjogren syndrome, sarcoidosis and vasculitides." http://tinyurl.com/4npqp
Reports such as this one indicate the symptoms of MS and Sarcoidosis can be identical. http://tinyurl.com/48999 "Five cases of biopsy- or Kveim test-proved sarcoidosis with Magnetic Resonance findings consistent with MS are reported. Each of these patients, diagnosed as having sarcoidosis, had symptoms identical to those seen in MS."
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Lyme/borreliosis can be misdiagnosed as MS.
-I was dx with MS in 1999, and Chronic Lyme in 2004. Only in 2004 did I find out that the sx and the typical tests cannot distinguish one disease from the other. They both cause loss of muscle coordination, measurable loss of nerve transmission capability, and brain and spine MRI lesions. ~dsiebenh
Dr Marshall wrote: There are a number of the sarcies who had an MS diagnosis on their journey to Sarcoidosis, and both sets of symptoms disappeared while they were recovering on the MP. Medicine is not very precise when diagnosing the idiopathic diseases, unfortunately.
Belinda wrote:
As to differentiating MS and sarcoid.. the published literature says that MS is indistinguishable from sarcoidosis affecting the nervous system. This article says, "Symptoms and signs observed in MS reflect lesions present mainly in the white matter of the central nervous system (CNS).
The diagnosis remains difficult, at least concerning presenting symptoms, because of their low specificity. Diagnosis criteria are usually based on dissemination of signs in time and space, evoked potentials, findings of magnetic resonance imaging, results of cerebrospinal fluid examination, and the exclusion of other diagnosis possibly explaining the clinical signs. However, no clinical and paraclinical investigation can distinguish with certainty MS from other conditions such as autoimmune or inflammatory diseases predominantly affecting the central nervous system. These other disorders include systemic lupus erythematosus, antiphospholipid syndrome, Behcet disease, Sjogren syndrome, sarcoidosis and vasculitides." Last edited on Sun Aug 24th, 2008 17:10 by Meg Mangin R.N.
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| 24+ years not Dx| ABCofMP
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Aussie Barb
Research Team
| Joined: | Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 |
| Location: | Australia |
| Posts: | 19258 |
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Online
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Posted: Tue Dec 6th, 2005 04:01 |
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Dr Marshall wrote:
Here is a paper on cytokine profiles in MS
http://tinyurl.com/5pa9n
They concluded that the Th1 profile is predominant, except during pregnancy. That conclusion was erroneous, in my opinion, for the reasons I stated here
http://tinyurl.com/6f6qr
however their raw data seem reliable, and it indicates Th1 is dominant.
The potential benefit of trying the MP is that it could cure the disease, the potential harm is that immunopathology will exacerbate the symptoms and make life even less enjoyable for the patient. The problem I have with discussing applicability of the MP to ALS, or MS, or Diabetes, or even Parkinsons, is our current lack of understanding of how serious the immune system reactions might be, and in what form they might become manifest.
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| 24+ years not Dx| ABCofMP
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Aussie Barb
Research Team
| Joined: | Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 |
| Location: | Australia |
| Posts: | 19258 |
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Online
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Posted: Tue Dec 6th, 2005 04:04 |
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(filelink)
Minocycline and MS
Here are a few medical articles about minocyline and multiple sclerosis. Many of the abstracts can be accessed at Entrez PubMed, an index of abstracts from many medical journals: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi
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Metz LM, Zhang Y, Yeung M, Patry DG, Bell RB, Stoian CA, Yong VW, Patten SB, Duquette P, Antel JP, Mitchell JR.
Minocycline reduces gadolinium-enhancing magnetic resonance imaging lesions in multiple sclerosis.
Ann Neurol. 2004 May;55(5):756.
PMID: 15122721 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Yong VW.
Prospects for neuroprotection in multiple sclerosis.
Front Biosci. 2004 Jan 1;9:864-72. Review.
PMID: 14766415 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Brundula V, Rewcastle NB, Metz LM, Bernard CC, Yong VW. Targeting leukocyte MMPs and transmigration: minocycline as a potential therapy for multiple sclerosis.
Brain. 2002 Jun;125(Pt 6):1297-308.
PMID: 12023318 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
MS Patients discussion group about minocycline as a promising treatment in MS
http://thisisms.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=28
http://thisisms.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1473
http://thisisms.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1208
Using abx in MS has in part become popular due to the British microbiologist David Wheldon who successfully treated his wife Sarah with antibiotics. She was suffering from rapidly progressing MS. The story and protocol have been published on http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/ms-treatment.html .
Dr. Marshall's comment on this study: Neither Borrelia or Chlamydia are sole pathogens behind Th1 disease. No single species has the ability to wreak the havoc of Th1 disease. In the most simplistic analysis, to infect the heart and lungs requires an aerobe (oxygen-loving); to infect the dense organs requires anaerobes.
In my conference presentations I have described what we are dealing with - successive infection and successive mutation leading to a genetic symbiosis which can evade phagocytosis.
The mistake being made by folks adhering to an antibiotic protocol, such as you have described, is that they think about 'Protocols,' rather than an understanding of the underlying disease. They will not be able to think beyond the disease symptoms until they start inducing full cure. Until that point they are struggling, and not conquering, hoping and not understanding.
That is why the MP is a curative therapy, and the protocols which came before it are not. It is a terrible mistake to regard antibiotics as equivalent, or even somewhat equivalent, in their functions. See, for example, the Molecular Genomics animations from my conference presentations where I show how the MP antibiotics target the bacterial 70S ribosome, and how they target it symbiotically.
Thanks for taking the time to let us know about David Wheldon's work. I was not aware of it. Now I will better understand the intellectual baggage which might well prevent some MS patients (and physicians) from understanding and fully embracing the science of 'the MP.'
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| 24+ years not Dx| ABCofMP
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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Tue Dec 6th, 2005 19:50 |
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Bacterial etiology
(filelink)
At this MS center, they recently did a study and concluded that "the association between inflammatory dysimmune diseases of the CNS.. might suggest a pathogenic relationship." http://tinyurl.com/3m4cu
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And: Dr. Lida Mattman stated, in her presentation at our ARF conference, that Multiple Sclerosis is caused by borrelia, and she noted a number of countries where this link has been confirmed. She covered this topic in her book, "Cell Wall Deficient Forms - Stealth Pathogens".
http://tinyurl.com/6lzn3
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Interesting new abstract about MS as an infection:
Epidemiology and etiology of multiple sclerosis.
Phys Med Rehabil Clin N Am. 2005 May;16(2):327-49.
PMID: 15893675 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sun Feb 5th, 2006 00:25 |
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No MS patients have been cured to this point, I think the longest period of any of them on the MP is only about 6 months. It takes time. The key thing is that they are reacting the same way to the therapy as the underlying biochemistry predicts. So, based on experience we have had with progress of folks with other Th1 diagnoses, that indication that the therapy is working exactly as predicted is all we need.
There actually were a number of the early Sarcoidosis cohort who had a diagnosis of MS which was later supplanted by Sarcoidosis. They have fully recovered. The pathogeneses and symptoms of the Th1 diseases are so much alike...
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Belinda
Research Team
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Posted: Sun Feb 5th, 2006 20:59 |
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Fatigue
There was an article published just last month in the Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery and Psychiatry about what causes the fatigue so common in MS patients. The authors concluded in MS patients, fatigue is mediated by Th1 pro-inflammatory cytokines. These researchers evaluated the usual pro-inflammatory cytokines like TNF-alpha and interferon gamma that go along with elevated 1,25-D.
You can see that the findings in this article about MS correlate with what we know about a dysregulated vitamin D metabolism.
When articles such as this one report low levels of "vitamin D" with higher incidences of loss of bone mass and non-traumatic fractures in patients with MS, they are talking about the levels of 25-D (not the 1,25-D hormone).
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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Tue Mar 7th, 2006 22:06 |
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| Stanford Doctors Spotlight Fatal Flaw In Multiple Sclerosis Drug Trial
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Aussie Barb
Research Team
| Joined: | Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 |
| Location: | Australia |
| Posts: | 19258 |
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Online
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Posted: Fri Mar 31st, 2006 21:53 |
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filelink
Interferon
Any drug currently prescribed for Autoimmune Diseases works by suppressing the immune system. It is almost certain that any of these drugs would stop the immune system from attacking the intra-phagocytic bacteria. That is why these drugs were developed - by supressing 'natural herx' they make the patients feel better, and become more functional - at least in the short-term.
Multiple Sclerosis is characterized by a strong Th1 immune response, the part of immunity that fights intracellular bacteria. Interferon-beta treatments are used for their immunomodulatory effects. This study concluded, "It appears that IFN-beta1b [Avonex] has a downregulatory effect on both Th1 and Th2 cytokines, while IFN-beta1a [Betaferon] causes a shift of the cytokine profile toward the Th2 phenotype."
As Dr. Marshall said, these treatments will not help the immune system attack intracellular bacteria. Instead they will suppress this critical immune function.
Belinda
The immune system is activated by a delicate balance of many, many hormones, cytokines, proteins and steroids. To affect any one of these will suppress proper action of the immune system. If you give somebody exogenous Interferon then their endogenous production will be cut back.
..Trevor..
Last edited on Mon Jul 30th, 2007 17:30 by Meg Mangin R.N.
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| 24+ years not Dx| ABCofMP
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Aussie Barb
Research Team
| Joined: | Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 |
| Location: | Australia |
| Posts: | 19258 |
| Status: |
Online
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Posted: Sun Jul 30th, 2006 19:09 |
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Member experience:
MS patient improves
also
Dr. Greg Blaney wrote:
I have several MS patients on the MP with good results so far. Like all MP patients, significant Immune reactions can occur which require informed supervision and treatment modifications
Interview with Ken L. of interest.
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| 24+ years not Dx| ABCofMP
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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Fri Aug 11th, 2006 19:09 |
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(filelink)
Genetic etiology disputed
"As exciting as the discovery is, it's a small part of the story: the new genes account for less than 1% of the risk of developing MS. In addition, about 70% of the normal, non-MS affected population has the same variants. "Every single time we have looked for genes for MS, the genes turn out to have a very small effect," says Dr. Moses Rodriguez, professor of immunology at the Mayo Clinic and a leading MS researcher." That suggests that either the disease is not genetically controlled in a significant way, or that if it is, that there are at least a 100 or so more genes that account for the entire disease process."
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1647940,00.html?cnn=yes
Last edited on Mon Jul 30th, 2007 17:28 by Meg Mangin R.N.
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 18:16 |
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Myelin sheath
We see nerves regenerate when peripheral neuropathy resolves for folk on the MP, so I see no reason the myelin sheath needs to be protected more than any other part of the body. Yes, I know that the MS researchers have focused on myelin, but so have the Alzheimers researchers focused on amyloid. They are both incorrect, IMO. They are looking at what is visible, but the intra-cellular changes are what are causing, and exacerbating, the illness.
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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Wed Dec 12th, 2007 16:52 |
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[filelink]
Antibiotics 'could help slow MS'
BBC News Tuesday, 11 December 2007
Adding antibiotics to standard drug therapy may slow down the progress of multiple sclerosis, research suggests.
Patients showed fewer symptoms and fewer signs of tissue damage when they took the antibiotic doxycycline alongside the MS drug beta interferon.
Louisiana State University researchers believe the antibiotic may block the action of enzyme that destroy certain cells in the nervous system.
Archives of Neurology reports the study involving 15 patients on its website.
However, UK experts warned the study was small, and no comparison was made with patients who did not take doxycycline.
"Antibiotics are cheap and easily available, which would make them an attractive treatment for MS if they were shown to be beneficial" Dr Laura Bell MS Society
The 15 patients who took part in the study all had relapsing-remitting MS - the most common form of the disease.
Typically, this causes attacks of symptoms such as muscle weakness and spasms, followed by periods of remission.
The attacks result from damage inflicted on the body by its own immune system, which turns in on itself, attacking the nervous tissue.
It is thought that these attacks may be triggered by an inappropriate response to viral or bacterial infections, or another potentially disease-causing agent.
They are certainly very unpredictable, and symptoms come and go, often seemingly randomly.
Many patients with relapsing-remitting MS take the drug interferon, which helps to suppress the immune system, and keep it working more normally.
However, they are still prone to attacks which cause damage to the tissue of the brain.
Brain scans
The study focused on patients who had been taking interferon for at least six months, and who were still experiencing symptoms, and developing new tissue damage in the brain.
For four months the patients took 100mg a day of doxycycline alongside their regular dose of interferon.
At the end of this period brain scans revealed that brain tissue damage was reduced by at least 25% in nine of the patients.
There were also signs that disability levels had improved.
The researchers believe that doxycycline, a member of the tetracycline family of antibiotics, may block an enzyme which destroys nerve cells, thus protecting the brain and increasing the effectiveness of the immune system.
Dr Laura Bell, of the MS Society, said: "Antibiotics are cheap and easily available, which would make them an attractive treatment for MS if they were shown to be beneficial.
"However this study is very early stage in only 15 people with MS and no firm conclusions can be drawn at this stage."
Chris Jones, chief executive of the MS Trust, agreed that the study was small, and had only covered a short period of time.
"A longer trial with more people will be needed before we can properly gauge the value of this combination for people with MS."
Helen Yates, of the MS Resource Centre, said the condition was complex and difficult.
She said other work was examining the possibility that MS was linked to an infection of the bacterium Chlamydia pneumoniae - more commonly associated with respiratory disease - in the brain.
"The growing interest in combination therapies is producing some good results, in particular for those people for whom single therapies have not worked."
See also:
Combination Therapy Appears Safe, Effective in Small MS Study
The Shreveport Times
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