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jlunn247
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Fri Jul 27th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 109 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 29th, 2008 07:29 |
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How much Mozzarella .
Most of it is not actually mozzarella.
lots of binders and cow hormones though.
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Sarc/lungs/joint pain TMJnerve pain 125D56 25D16 Ph1Mar07 ModPh2Jun07 Ph2Nov07 PHase3Feb08 albuterol
dark sunglasses hands & face exposed. Medium herx
mostly.june09
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geneartemenko
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Sat Nov 29th, 2008 08:51 |
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Claire,
Try FAGE 2% Greek strained yogurt http://www.fageusa.com or any good supermarket. I love it. No vitamin D, no probiotics I spoke with customer service.
Happy T-DAY weekend
Gene
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Lyme 05 burning&pain muscles and joints,TMJ blurring vision 125D51 25D40(Aug07) Ph1 Feb08 25D19.3(May08).Ph2(May08) 25D18.3(July08).25D13.0(Oct08).25D-11.4Dec08.25D-9.3Apr25D-11.5Jn09.D25-10,1.25d-14.4Sep09
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Knochen
Moderator
| Joined: | Thu Feb 23rd, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 349 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 29th, 2008 18:00 |
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Trevor,
I've got some speculations on yogurt and "bacterial food" in general, and your input would be appreciated.
Given that:
A. Our gut biota is reduced by consumption of antibiotics throughout the MP.
B. We take a limited amount of antibiotic.
Does it not follow that we should strive to keep our gut biota load as low as possible to get the most out of our abx dosing? Here's my reasoning. The abx will bind to whatever bacteria it finds. Once bound, it stays put. Since we are taking the abx orally, it would seem reasonable that there would be a lot of gut bacteria that would bind up the abx before it could even get a chance to get into the bloodstream and to the tissues where we really want it. "Supplementing" the gut biota through yogurt or probiotics would just offset the efficacy of the abx, at least to some extent. (I'm ignoring the other immunomodulatory effects of probiotics in the gut that were discussed elsewhere)
Also, when these gut bacteria die, be they pathogens or "friendly" yogurt bacteria, would that not induce a herxheimer reaction? If so, increasing the gut biota load would seem to be counterproductive. Why herx for no gain?
If my suppositions above are correct, then the low carb approach makes a great deal of sense. Why feed the existing gut biota so they can reproduce? It seems like we would be pouring water into a bucket we wanted to empty. Obviously it's going to be a running battle between bacterial reproduction and elimination, but if the abx is being diverted to gut biota, and the herxheimer reaction is being generated in a large part due to the gut biota rather than the CWD being killed, it seems like we should make every effort to reduce "spurious" bacteria of all kinds, whether through supplementation or simply "feeding the bugs".
Does this make any sense?
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Reiter's Syndrome 25+ yrs, fatigue, joints, muscles, migraine, brainfog| 25D <4 ng/ml |Benicar May06|Ph1 June06|Ph 2 Sept06|Ph 3 Jan 07|NoIRs K-Cream Zinc Oxide cream - Always covered!
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sat Nov 29th, 2008 18:10 |
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Does it not follow that we should strive to keep our gut biota load as low as possible to get the most out of our abx dosing?
Absolutely. Also, reducing the gut bacteria will reduce the load on the innate immune system there.
when these gut bacteria die, be they pathogens or "friendly" yogurt bacteria, would that not induce a herxheimer reaction?
The cytokines and chemokines (IP) come primarily from the intra-phagocytic metagenomic microbiota, not from isolated bacterial organisms in the gut.
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Cold Feet
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Tue Dec 9th, 2008 20:51 |
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Interesting discussion. I’ve always been interested in the ecosystem of the GI tract, though I don’t pretend to know anything about its complexity. I know that we are not mice, but I found the following article interesting:
'Border Patrol Agents' In The Gut Identified By UT Southwestern Scientists
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/132274.php
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Lyme & Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2004 -Age 44| 6 Wks Doxy & 25 mG Atenolol STOPPED| 1,25D–42 25D-37| Phase 1 Oct. 06| Avoiding all D & Sun | NOIRs Everywhere | March 2007: 1,25D–30 | 25D-11
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Markt9452
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Tue Dec 16th, 2008 16:07 |
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Scientists Required to Re-Think Idea of Core Microbiome in Human Gut - GEN News Highlights
A team of researchers at Washington University in St. Louis has characterized the human gut microbiome by sequencing the microbial communities of adult twins and their mothers. They report that the study invalidated the hypothesis that a uniform human gut microbiome exists at the level of bacterial species. Instead, the results demonstrated that common metabolic functions yield a gut microbiome that is carried out by communities varying greatly in exact species composition across individuals.
When comparing lean and obese twins, the researchers found further that deviations from this core functional microbiome were associated with the differences in physiologic states. The study also revealed significant differences in genes associated with nutrient metabolism.
Using the Genome Sequencer FLX System, the investigators found that individuals from the same family had more similar bacterial communities than unrelated individuals. The immense microbial diversity found across all individuals forced them to reconsider the hypothesis of a core microbiome based on the relative abundance of bacterial families. Instead, common functional categories of genes and metabolic pathways were consistently found across all samples, implying that a variety of bacterial species can perform the same metabolic functions.
The article appears online in the November 30 issue of Nature.
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Th1 Lyme Symptoms 125D20 D2510 Ph1Feb08 Ph2Apr08 Ph3Oct08 daily med.exp covered up NoIRs| MyStory|
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Tue Dec 16th, 2008 16:50 |
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I had the opportunity to meet Jeffrey Gordon, and his colleagues from Washington University (St Louis) at the Metagenomics conferences.
http://rpvss.ucsd.edu:8080/ramgen/calit2/metagenomics/gordon.rm
They still don't fully comprehend the significance of our intracellular Th1 microbiota, but they are slowly getting there. This paper holds a wealth of information, and should help dispel the pragma of the body being a sterile compartment (currently driving modern clinical medicine).
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Phospheros
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 14:59 |
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Joyful mentioned the Show me state in her example. For the benefit of those in my home state of Missouri . . .
We have some rather conflicting laws on that... My understanding of our present laws:
Milk that is fat modified and produced in Missouri and intended for distribution within the state of Missouri has to be fortified under Missouri law. Milk that is not fat modified does not have to be fortified, but sometimes is. Milk intended for cheese production does not have to be fortified, but sometimes is. Milk produced in other states that is not fat modified can be sold here in the unfortified state, and as well as whole milk which is homogenized.
With the exception of raw milk, of which I only know of a handful of farmers who sell directly to the public, most milk produced in Missouri is fortified. Raw milk can be sold in Missouri, but it has to be direct from the farmer, and there is considerable red tape involved. There is a farmer who sells raw milk at the Clayton, Missouri farmers market on the weekends for roughly 7/gallon. You can freeze it can store it for a couple weeks without really changing much about it, but once you thaw it in the fridge, have to treat it like you would any other milk product (make sure you date it and use it within 10 days of thawing). So it is possible to stock up and make only a monthly trip there for milk if you prefer raw milk and are willing to take a very small risk of listeria.
I have come across a couple examples of organic non-homogenized milk for sale in Missouri without fortification. This is the kind of milk where the cream rises to the top and you have to shake it. It has always been produced somewhere else.
Cream as well as Half & Half does not have to be fortified in Missouri, even if it is produced here. Very little of it is, and most of them tell you when it is, usually its a safe bet it isn't.
Yogurt, Cheese, and Ice cream do not have to be fortified in Missouri. However, since the WTO changed the definition of ice cream to be closer to ice milk, many of the ice cream makers use milk instead of cream, some also include eggs. Even if you don't see high A on the label, they still may be made with fortified milk. You have no way to know if the ice cream you are getting is made with fortified milk or not other than to try it and see if you get a reaction. (They don't list the fortification of ingredients on the label, just the ingredients). The same ice cream that is safe for a person in Illinois may not be safe for a person on the MP in Missouri. Most of that is made & distributed locally, and its up to the maker in the individual state to decide what type of milk they will use. [Finding real ice cream made with only cream is a very difficult task.]
Its a somewhat frustrating state of affairs, but I have come across milk from other states which is fine, several ice creams which are fine, we have a local cheese company named Hautly which will work with you to find products in their catalog which are safe (nice owners, very helpful)
We really need to crab at the legislature to get D content listed on the label. (Though I suspect the move would lead to even more companies to start fortifying their products.)
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FM RA 125D27 Ph1Mar07 brkAug-Oct07 r/t SIADH ModPh2Dec07 Jan08 costochondritis abxbrk Mar-May08 r/t prednisone resume Ph1Jun08 MScontin Roxicodone ranitidine Naproxen Soma Ca/Mg @RDA NoIRs limited outings covered up low lux home 25D11
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