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eClaire
Member in Phase 2
| Joined: | Mon Sep 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 859 |
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Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 05:17 |
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I was having thoughts about the role of bacteria in raw and cooked foods. Common wisdom is that if foods are cooked, then they are safer. Of course, we're learning that is not necessarily the case. I'm wondering if cooked foods might not help break down bacteria into CWD bacteria as well.
When I had an out of control natural herx for 8 months 15 years ago, I went on a diet that was almost identical to the MP diet, however, most of it was raw. I've begun to wonder if that might not have contributed to my feeling better as well.
Claire
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38mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob. IBS/GERD osteopor.; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings & covered up; home w/o NoIRs
Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08 * Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan2009
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goobygirl
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Tue Jul 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 154 |
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Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 05:31 |
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Claire,
I just think from a "common sense" viewpoint, why do humans have to cook their food? Why do they eat things that they have to cook first to digest (I can't see me running down a chicken, biting its head off, and eating it). Of course this is a wildly debated topic in many circles, but I'm on the side of if it's edible and attainable in its natural state, then it seems like "common sense" says that you can/should eat it.
I can only report from my own experience that eating a raw food based diet has seemed to help me. Of course, I could likewise be progressing on the MP. At any rate, it works for me, and I feel nourished. When I eat a primarily cooked diet, I don't feel satiated like I do with raw. I want to eat more and more.
Anyhow, that's all I'll post here since I don't want to be clogging up the thread. Perhaps it would be a good discussion on the MP Lifestyles site.
Last edited on Sun Dec 21st, 2008 05:33 by goobygirl
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FM, Hashimoto's, sleep apnea, TMJ, endometriosis, migraines, carpal tunnel; initial testing: 125D 24.2 pg/ml, D25 - 33.5ng/ml; last test 12/6/09: 25D 8; mp began 11/07; 100 mcg Cytomel, 5 mg Valium as needed and for sleep.
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NickBowler
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Fri Jan 23rd, 2009 13:04 |
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http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16467-bugs-and-tongues-reveal-human-march-across-pacific.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news
This article illustrates how different populations gradually develop different microbiota!
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Sarcoirodis CIDP, MP start 11/07, NoIRs, 02/08 25D-8, Ph3 since 07/08|
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Aunt Diana
Moderator
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Posted: Fri Jan 23rd, 2009 23:06 |
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| Thank you for this interesting article....for an even more interesting "read"..you must read the comments that follow the article.
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Lyme 1987, neuro cardio fatigue achiness brain fog depression, anxiety. Pacemaker, D.1,25 32; D <5; 12/07 <6, hydrocodone, lorazapam, benedryl, zantac, colase, Noirs, cover-up or avoid sun, house <30lux. Feb 08 Phase 3. 6/08 D <4, D1,25
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Joyful
Foundation Staff
| Joined: | Sat Jun 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 2252 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 21st, 2009 22:52 |
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And now, back to near the topic this thread was started on...
Could this study linking organic brain dysfunction to anorexia actually highlight the results of another bacterial rampage outside of the gut itself? We know the pathogens are not limited to a single area of the body...Review provides new insights into the causes of anorexia
New imaging technology provides insight into abnormalities in the brain circuitry of patients with anorexia nervosa (commonly known as anorexia) that may contribute to the puzzling symptoms found in people with the eating disorder.
Last edited on Tue Jul 21st, 2009 22:54 by Joyful
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MP Stories | Bacteriality | MP Search | MP Knowledge Base
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margozed
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2009 22:10 |
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Hi, I just came accross this news item thought it might be interesting,
would like to know if this is relevent to the job (debugging) that we are
working on just wondering what others thought.
Margo http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-07/hms-cad072209.php
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HTN FM apnea lymphodema hypoparathyroid Ph1Sep07 Thyroxin 100mcg ,2mg Laxis, SAMe Quercetin when needed NoIRs lowlux home 25D 3.6 Ph1Sep07 Ph2Nov07 Ph3May08
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2009 00:46 |
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Margo,
It might be interesting once they move it out of mice and prove it in men 
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NickBowler
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Wed Aug 12th, 2009 10:30 |
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Some interesting reading here:
http://gordonlab.wustl.edu/GLHome.html
http://www.prohealth.com/fibromyalgia/library/showArticle.cfm?libid=14769&B1=EM081209F
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Sarcoirodis CIDP, MP start 11/07, NoIRs, 02/08 25D-8, Ph3 since 07/08|
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Rosie
Member
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Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 19:12 |
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This AP article appeared in our local paper yesterday. Thought you would be interested.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/AP/Search/US/Default.aspx?id=735496
Scientists seek origins of obesity in the womb by Malcolm Ritter
(Here's an excerpt)
"That's the implication of research suggesting that something in an obese woman's womb can program her fetus toward becoming a fat child and adult. It's not about simply passing along genes that promote obesity; it's some sort of still-mysterious signal.
The idea has only recently entered conversations between doctors and female patients, and scientists are scrambling to track down a biological explanation. That knowledge, in turn, may provide new ways to block obesity from crossing generations."
Last edited on Fri Oct 30th, 2009 19:13 by Rosie
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Thyroid disease/Spondylitis/FMS/Osteopenia/Parox Atrial Fib/Severe Insomnia; 9/19/05: 1,25D=53, 25D=27; stopped D suppl (525iu/day) on 8/3/05, limited D intake.
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eClaire
Member in Phase 2
| Joined: | Mon Sep 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 859 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 10th, 2009 01:28 |
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And so you think they might connect the finding that some bacteria can make you fat?
Sometimes I think that many scientists are so mono-focused that they miss stuff (possible explanations) that the rest of us get just reading the papers.
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38mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob. IBS/GERD osteopor.; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings & covered up; home w/o NoIRs
Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08 * Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan2009
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Frans
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Fri Dec 11th, 2009 22:37 |
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Interesting:
Fat in diet won't affect weight gain over time
- http://tinyurl.com/yd8huef
So, what mysterious factor does? Do our few trillion friends help ?
Frans
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Burn-out/nervous breakdown Jan01 125D 48 25D8.48 Ph1Nov06 ModPh2Jan07 Ph2Apr08 Cipramil Seroquel NoIRs lite exp r/t work cover up 25D3.9(Oct07)
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Ron
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Sat Dec 12th, 2009 08:33 |
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Do our few trillion friends help ?
Or what about those "healthy" fats from fish..?
Ron
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Dad with RA, MP 01/08| 25D-16.8| Apr08 7.1 Sep08 11.6 Mar09 7.6 Jul09 17 Dec09 10.4| oxycodon, NoIRs, limited outings covered up
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NickBowler
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2010 12:04 |
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http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/1/6/6ra14.abstract
Demonstration of very rapid alteration of the gut bacteria to those linked with obesity by a change of diet
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Sarcoirodis CIDP, MP start 11/07, NoIRs, 02/08 25D-8, Ph3 since 07/08|
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Russ
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Thu Jan 7th, 2010 17:02 |
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"Switching from a low-fat, plant polysaccharide–rich diet to a high-fat, high-sugar “Western” diet shifted the structure of the microbiota within a single day...Humanized mice fed the Western diet have increased adiposity"
Very interesting study. Too bad their is no way to tell (at least not from the abstract) whether it was the switch from low-fat to high-fat that caused the increase in adiposity, or the switch from plant polysaccaharides to sugar that caused it, or both.
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Lyme, MCS, ADD, optic nerve inflammation | Phase 1: Jul '06 | Phase 3: Jul '07 | 25D: 5 ng/ml (Oct '09)
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NickBowler
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sat Jan 16th, 2010 16:49 |
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It seems the old adage 'you are what you eat' is morphing into 'you are what you eat, and also what your ancestors ate'!
If gut bacteria can change within a day of starting a new dietary regime, and those bacteria can powerfully affect genetic expression, think what a lifetime of eating junk food will do to following generations.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1951968,00.html
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Sarcoirodis CIDP, MP start 11/07, NoIRs, 02/08 25D-8, Ph3 since 07/08|
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marysue
Moderator
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Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 00:10 |
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Wow, Nick--thanks for sharing the link. That was a long article but one worth reading.
Of course, now I have a bunch of questions. Since as usual, these researchers aren't looking at the role of L-form bacteria in all this, I'm wondering how many of their discoveries were actually caused by the L-form bacteria.
For example, in the example given of men who started smoking at age 11 (pre-puberty). They made the correlation that the sons of these men had a higher risk of obesity. So I'm wondering if the environmental/lifestyle choices that they believe alter the epigenome (as they say, "sitting on top of the genome or DNA) and impact future generations are actually creating an internal environment that favors L-form bacteria which are then involved with altering genetic information--and thus, impacting future generations by passing on the same "pea soup" of L-form bacteria.
Questions:
Do L-form bacteria act on both the epigenome AND the human genome? Or do we even know that yet?
Will these epigenetic researchers be focusing on the human epigenome and simply miss out on the role that L-form bacteria are having on the metagenome (both bacterial and human genetic information)?
Marysue
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Thanks Dr. Marshall and staff for all the support!
CFS/FM '95; infert/endomet '02; hypotension; cardiac IP; start light restrict. Oct08; 125D=70 25D=30 (Feb09); Benicar26Apr09; NoIRs, low light, no sun; 25D=10 (Jun09); 25D=5 (Nov09)
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Lottis
Health Professional
| Joined: | Sun Jan 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Sweden |
| Posts: | 258 |
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Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 14:20 |
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I would guess that the pathogens effect also the epigenome. It seems to be mostly important at what age this happens, whatever the cause is.
The result seems to be connected to at what age the grandparents were going through the extra "stress" in their lives.
For females, that would be during the time that they were in the womb, when the egg follicles where being formed.
For males it would be at the pre-puberty age, when the testicles starts producing the "sperm factories".
I learned about this some years ago, I was fascinated by what conclusions that could lead up to. Boys from eleven years old and up maybe 14 or so, would need extra tender care, perfect food and a life without stress or toxins.
For girls, that would mean screening for girl foetals, and make sure the pregnant mother would get best possible life and food, determining herself if she would be happier to work or not.
We would have a world with happy pregnant women and happy young boys. That in itself would solve a lot of problems in the world. 
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HTN,LVH,CHF,arrhythmia,hypercholesterol,IBS? fibromyalgia?salivarystones,gallstones,ect...|15feb-07 init. 1,25D 37,5,|25-D 7,8(latest 15/2-07)| Ph1 29/7-08| Palliativ Meds. at the present; |Zoloft|NoIR's|covered up|disabled|
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 14:34 |
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"when the egg follicles where being formed"
I know it is currently accepted that a woman has a single supply of eggs, but I think that is incorrect. The cells ought to be able to differentiate as required, not just during gestation. Only time, and more stem cell research, will give us the final answer, however
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marysue
Moderator
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Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 17:57 |
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Thanks Lottis and Trevor. I'm sure there is much to discover about certain crucial periods and how environmental stressors affect gene expression.
Here's a link to the wikipedia page for "epigenetics":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
The similarity of the word to "genetics" has generated many parallel usages. The "epigenome" is a parallel to the word "genome," and refers to the overall epigenetic state of a cell. The phrase "genetic code" has also been adapted—the "epigenetic code" has been used to describe the set of epigenetic features that create different phenotypes in different cells. Taken to its extreme, the "epigenetic code" could represent the total state of the cell, with the position of each molecule accounted for; more typically, the term is used in reference to systematic efforts to measure specific, relevant forms of epigenetic information such as the histone code or DNA methylation patterns
OK, so I get that "epigenetics" is not separate from the genome--it just refers to the specific area of gene expression, or what is causing the bits of information in the DNA sequence to be expressed or silenced, for example.
Specific epigenetic processes include paramutation, bookmarking, imprinting, gene silencing, X chromosome inactivation, position effect, reprogramming, transvection, maternal effects, the progress of carcinogenesis, many effects of teratogens, regulation of histone modifications and heterochromatin, and technical limitations affecting parthenogenesis and cloning.
So, when we say that L-form bacteria are able to alter genes, are they just swapping or stealing bits of DNA, or are they switching things on and off too? It seems to me that the switching things on and off once they infect the cells would (or could) involve epigenetic changes too.
MarysueLast edited on Sun Jan 17th, 2010 18:02 by marysue
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Thanks Dr. Marshall and staff for all the support!
CFS/FM '95; infert/endomet '02; hypotension; cardiac IP; start light restrict. Oct08; 125D=70 25D=30 (Feb09); Benicar26Apr09; NoIRs, low light, no sun; 25D=10 (Jun09); 25D=5 (Nov09)
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 20:49 |
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The intraphagocytic microbiota is indeed capable of many forms of epigenetic interference with proper operation the human genome
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