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Joyful
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Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 01:48 |
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Hey friends,
Here is an odd question about MS from a friend who does esoteric research.
This is their question...
The medical data is all over the board which means it is not a standard medical problem. Here observable (and puzzling to the medical community) facts about MS:
- there has always been a very strong land connection associated with the incidence of the disease. the highest around the poles of the earths (north and south) and the ultimate highest one is in the Orkney island in Ireland where the incidence reaches 300 per 100,000 (usual incidence in general population is about 23/100,000)
- strong time connection: greatest number of MS people are born in May, and being born in the month of November is protective
Any thoughts?
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linda veerman
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Posted: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 11:22 |
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in Africa and by the escimo`s it is not occuring
in Canada [i meant not Austria] Ireland and Europe the most
my two cents
the bug[s] who cause ms are not living in the lands where it is not occuring
and when your mom gets enough sun light when you are getting build in her tummy you will get better veins thanks to the vitamin D
a lot of ms people have narrowed veins [jugulars,azygos]
i had narrowed jugulars,that have made it difficult for my body to drain bad things [bugs on my brains,and iron]
Last edited on Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 16:14 by linda veerman
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MP start 03-07-2012 (no breaks) | MS (SPMS) | can not walk and use right hand well | last 25D= None available in my country
did have a CCSVI operation
food; raw ;sweet potato,veggies ,non sweet fruit ,young coconut water and roasted chicken
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lorenzo von matterhorn
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Posted: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 15:46 |
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It can mean a million things or it can mean nothing, isn't that how statistics work, really?
Orkney island is probably a small closed off community and maybe some guy there was so lucky to catch the ms soup of bacteria/virus once upon a time and it spread in a closed group. Some place in Canada has the highest degree of OPMD, and some place in africa has higher incidence of this and that. Isn't it what Trevor has told us that the bacteria soup is different from one corner of the world to another, so it's only natural that there will be some differences in disease as well.
On mpkb in the ms article it's mentioned that near-horizon sunshine may be a trigger for multiple sclerosis.
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Emotional&cognitive issues, food intolerance 125D50 25D19 PH1Sep09 PH2Oct09 (28/01)25D3.6 low lux nada sun
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Dr Trevor Marshall
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Posted: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 15:58 |
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The above map was downloaded from msrc.co.uk and is alleged to show this equatorial gradient. So let's look at Argentina, Alaska, Norway. Japan...
And China? MS is rare in China.
Low prevalence in Russia, although it varies by ethnic region.
So IMO this whole gradient thing is fantasy. I don't see the data to back it up. I see a regionally distributed disease, which fits in with a microbiome-specific pathogenesis.
Incidentally, this is not the only incorrect concept about disease incidence adopted by Modern Medicine. Next months' Autoimmunity Congress in Granada has scheduled a whole session to discuss why people who have had Malaria, never get Lupus.
Immediately that session was announced, a post was made to the Autoimmunity congress discussion by a physician in India:
"I would like to say that the place in India where I practice is an endemic for malaria and I see a lot of lupus day in and day out. In fact it is only the under-recognition of autoimmune disorders like sle/sjogren/vasculitis, rather than less prevalence of systemic autoimmune diseases in malarial endemic areas."
So who are you going to believe? I will plump for the Indian physician, I think 
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Joyful
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Posted: Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 18:24 |
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Excellent replies!
When I first read the email from my friend, many thoughts passed through my mind in less developed form than your replies, but I knew there were problematic statements in the question.
When you start with the types of assertions this "question" makes, you may go looking under all the wrong rocks.
Thanks to everyone.
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leroybrown
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 00:23 |
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A lot of Canadians are of British / Irish / Scottish descent, they probably brought their MS bugs with them.
Deb
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Life could be worse. Things could get bad. - Barney Bentall
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Ph1: Sept 29/09 benicar q8hrs * Nov 26/09 q6hrs *
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Dr Trevor Marshall
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 00:51 |
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ditto for South-Eastern Australia...
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Rico
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 01:41 |
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So is it safe to deduce that if there were no vitamin d fortification or supplementation, no widespread antibiotic or steroid use, that immune systems would likely be able to deal with the varying microbiomes?
But then again, the plagues spread across routes of trade and there was no excess vitamin d, antibiotic or other steroid use hundreds of years ago.
So which is the bigger culprit? Mixing microbiomes or suppressing the immune system?
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No diagnosis/some symptoms; wife with Sarc on MP; Olm 40mg q6h| avoid D| 1,25D=63 25D=32 (May 2006) 1,25D=44; 25D=10(Dec 2006)PhaseI(May06) PhaseII(Aug06) PhaseIII(Aug07)
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Dr Trevor Marshall
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 04:03 |
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The microbiome is flourishing because of
1. Food (esp meat) imports from diverse regions (see my April webconference)
2. Travel and migration
3. Immunosuppression (eg steroids, prednisone ca. 1954)
4 Unintentional immunosuppression - herbal remedies, Vit D & cod liver oil, widespread use of drugs which have immune side effects (eg SSRI).
5. Reduction in breast feeding
I don't think antibiotics had much to do with it. Although their control of specific species may have accelerated some dysbiosis and helped spawn L-forms.
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titta
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 20:20 |
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When you google for MS and Orkney/Shetland and Faroer Islands you will find that before 1942 MS was not prevalent there. It occured epidemically when British soldiers where stationed there in WWII. So it was thought to be an infection.
When people from Africa emigrate to Northern countries after the age of 14 the keep their risk of MS like in Africa, if they emigrate before 14 they adapt to the local risk.
The MP disease model can explain it all...
Regarding the beautiful region of Scotland (which I miss very much) it has to be mentioned that it is a region with a high prevalence of chronic diseases of any kind, and MS and addictions, depressions and suicide. This has even been used to attract Pharamaceutical Industries to do their trials there (collaboration with universities and NHS, available data from cradle to grave).
I often wondered that one reason why Scotland is so disease ridden, is because most of the healthy people have emigrated over centuries, the last big emigration-wave in the 60ies. Combined with the MP disease model it can explain a lot. I did not find sources about the infectious potential of those notorious Scottish flies....
Take care,
Titta
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MP start Jul'07 | Sarcoidosis
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Paisleykilt
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 21:00 |
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Hmmm, I am from Scotland and my family's bacterial load seems pretty heavy: Dad has Alzheimer's, Mum has Parkinson's and cancer, my elder brother has severe autism (He is non-verbal.), both my younger sisters have a host of odd ailments, and my cousins have, respectively, advanced Alzheimer's and depression.
I'm the supposedly 'healthy one', because chronic Lyme doesn't exist. 
Will I be quitting the MP any time soon? Not a chance. If I need to be on the MP for the rest of my life, then so be it. 
I really liked what Dr. Marshall said during last Saturday's conference about our definitions of 'cured' changing over time. It's great to know that positive changes can keep occurring over many, many years.
This is the only protocol that gives me any hope at all!
Yes, Scotland is ruggedly beautiful, but I don't miss the midges....
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MP start May'11 (no breaks) | Lyme Disease/CFS/Fibromyalgia (depending which specialist to believe) | muscle/joint pain, severe fatigue, neurological symptoms | last 25D= 11.2 ng/mL Jan.'13
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leroybrown
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 21:55 |
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Paisley - surely the bugs can't possibly be worse in Scotland than Canada? If so then I feel very sorry for the poor Scots.
Deb
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Life could be worse. Things could get bad. - Barney Bentall
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Ph1: Sept 29/09 benicar q8hrs * Nov 26/09 q6hrs *
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titta
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 22:09 |
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regarding the midges....maybe just the proportions as the lands have (similar but far smaller)
Titta
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2012 23:07 |
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titta wrote: I often wondered that one reason why Scotland is so disease ridden, is because most of the healthy people have emigrated over centuries, the last big emigration-wave in the 60ies
One of my favorite 'Australian' musicians was amongst those migrants, Eric Bogle (and his colleague John Munro)
Both seem to be surviving OK into their 'old age', still on-tour and performing about as well as ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RCEYbEakkI
..Trevor..
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Joyful
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Posted: Tue Apr 24th, 2012 08:21 |
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Article: Celtic gene linked to multiple sclerosis.
Researchers found that people with a surname beginning Mac or Mc were 24% more likely to have the disease than those without a Scottish name.
Genetic predisposition
The findings published in the Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, were said to be evidence of a genetic predisposition to MS among the Scots.
They were also thought to explain the high prevalence of the disease in countries to which large numbers of Scots had emigrated, such as New Zealand.
The researchers concluded: "The very high prevalences of multiple sclerosis found in Orkney and Shetland are unlikely therefore to be due to peculiarities of the small island environments, and are more likely to be due to a genetic predisposition to the disease.
"Scottish ancestry appears to be a `risk factor' for the development of multiple sclerosis, and this may explain the high prevalence of the disease in countries in which there are significant numbers of Scottish migrants."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/113139.stm
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Joyful
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Posted: Tue Apr 24th, 2012 08:25 |
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Study: Factors suggest genetic predisposition may create a susceptibility to sexually transmitted neurotropic agent.
J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry 2002;73:439-443 doi:10.1136/jnnp.73.4.439
Short report
Is multiple sclerosis a sexually transmitted infection?
C H Hawkes
Author Affiliations
Institute of Neurology, Queen Square, London WC1, UK
Correspondence to:
Dr C Hawkes, Essex Centre for Neuroscience, Oldchurch Hospital, Romford, Essex RM7 0BE, UK;
chrishawkes@msn.com
Abstract
It is proposed that multiple sclerosis may be transmitted chiefly by sexual contact. Arguments favouring this include: migration studies that suggest a transmissible agent in adolescence; clusters of multiple sclerosis which have occurred in low prevalence areas following entry of young males; the similarity of multiple sclerosis to tropical spastic paraplegia, a known sexually transmitted infection with resemblance to primary progressive multiple sclerosis; an increased rate in drug misusers; a similar age of onset and sex pattern to that found in sexually transmitted disease; increased incidence of multiple sclerosis in those using oral contraceptives; low multiple sclerosis rates in societies with a strict moral code; longitudinal shifts in sex prevalence that show an increase in women after the sexual revolution of the 1960s; and important exceptions to the worldwide distribution corresponding to countries with permissive attitudes to sex.
Family, conjugal pair, twin, and adoption studies are compatible with an infectious cause of multiple sclerosis if this is sexually transmitted. It is not proposed that sexual transmission is the only cause but that inherited factors create a susceptibility to a sexually transmitted neurotropic agent. It is hoped this hypothesis might encourage a new direction of neurological research.
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ChrisMavo
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Posted: Tue Apr 24th, 2012 10:45 |
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Interesting paper Joyful! I have long suspected that my ALS could have possibly been a sexually transmitted disease that I picked up in my younger "wilder" days of the sexually free 1970's. And the similarity of ALS symptoms to neuro syphilis, which has been known for years as the "great imitator", also lends credence to this possibility. I would not be surprised to find out that both MS and ALS are primarily sexually transmitted diseases.
Let's just hope that with the MP those of us with these horrible diseases can overcome them!
Good health!
Chris
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PLS/ALS, speech difficulty, dizziness, leg weakness, overly emotional, Ph1Aug2609,11/2012 25D-12, 11/11: 25D-10, 04/11: 25D-11, 07/10: 25D-13, 05/10: 25D-15, 11/09: 25D-20, 9/09: 25D-27, 7/09: 25D-38, 1,25D-46, Mod Ph2Oct09, 100mg Mino
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Aunt Diana
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2012 03:40 |
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And, not to be redundant, but the obvious correlation of MS and Lyme.
The inhabitants of Martha's Vineyard (not the summer population) have a very high percentage of MS. The island is tick ridden...I suspect many of the children walking in leg braces have Lyme and may be treatied with abx.
It really breaks my heart that somehow the Medical establishment thinks that making these connections is silly or invalid. ˆ I only wish they would do a study to prove it ...right or wrong.
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Lyme 1987, neuro cardio fatigue achiness brain fog depression, anxiety. Pacemaker, D.1,25 32; D <5; 12/07 <6, hydrocodone, lorazapam, benedryl, zantac, colase, Noirs, cover-up or avoid sun, house <30lux. Feb 08 Phase 3. 6/08 D <4, D1,25
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2012 06:30 |
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There are numerous problems with drawing associations between MS and 'Lyme'.
First , the antibody tests for 'Lyme' are not precise, and give false positives
Secondly, even if Borrelia is present, Borrelia is just one of the microbes collectively doing the damage, so why single it out?
and finally, the CDC is correct in saying that a large number of people who say they have a 'Lyme' diagnosis have no complete Borrelia Genome in them. Many MS patients have no Borrelia DNA either. So why imply that Lyme is causal?
It is critically important to understand the concept of the human microbiome. Microbial genes interfering with the Interactome is the pathogenesis for which there is a volume of scientific support. If we continue to talk about outdated concepts, with only flimsy evidence to support them, we will be marginalized
You might like to listen to my Singapore presentation, where I went over many of the elements discussed above
http://youtube.com/DrTrevorMarshall
..Trevor..
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Freddie Ash
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2012 12:28 |
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HI ALL
This is Fred in WV. Here is my little story about MS and sarcoidosis. I had a friend that he told me he was diagnosed with MS. After I talked to him and told him it sound like he had sarcoidosis not MS. About 2 months later he had a place come out on his arm and the doc did a biopsy and it came back as sarcoidosis. My friend could not believe it.
Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.
Your friend in Sarcoidosis
Freddei
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Freddie: dx-sarc 2/82 lymph; skin, eyes, joints, esophagus, intestines, spleen, heart,lungs-25D-7; 125-D43
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