 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
|
Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 17:42 |
|
I have some data on the Vitamin D2 content of Beer (as Ergosterol). Incomplete, I know, but better than nothing 
First, the 1928 paper confirming that irradiated Ergosterol behaves essentially the same as Vitamin D3 from animal sources:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1252183&blobtype=pdf
I found a study which had been performed by the brewing industry in an attempt to prove that beer prevents cholesterol accumulation. They were unsuccessful in that, but they did measure the high Ergosterol content of at least one beer, totally failing to understand its significance, of course:
http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/papers/2007/G-2007-0424-504.pdf
In Table II they measured two beers. In one, the lager, any ergosterol was below their threshold of measurement. However, in a different type of beer, 'Weiss beer', they found:"Even the level of ergosterol in a yeast rich Weiss bier (4.5 µg/330 mL) was still negligible compared to the recommended daily amount, which is of the order of grams"
Er, no, actually the 200IU US RDA of Vit D is about 5 micrograms of Vitamin D total from all sources 
A full pint of that brew might contain the equivalent of 250IU. That's just one full pint...
This assumes, of course, that the enzymes in the human body are capable of performing efficiently the functions usually performed by 'irradiation', ultraviolet light in the laboratory. Which I currently assume that they are.
Doesn't this give you confidence in the luminaries who are responsible for "improving" our food supply? I would appreciate anybody who has the time to do the legwork and see if there is any other more definitive data which would allow us to calculate exactly how Beer factors into the overall Vit D scheme of things...
Merry Christmas and many Happy New Years to us all...
|
Frans
Member in Phase 2
|
Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 18:09 |
|
Trevor,
I am not sure, but I thought D2 leads to 1,25D2 ? Instead of 1,25D3?
I read somewhere (don't remember where exactly) that 1,25D2 has about the same affinity for the VDR?
Does 1,25D2 have the same capacity to áctivate the VDR ?
Best, Frans
____________________
Burn-out/nervous breakdown Jan01 125D 48 25D8.48 Ph1Nov06 ModPh2Jan07 Ph2Apr08 Cipramil Seroquel NoIRs lite exp r/t work cover up 25D3.9(Oct07)
|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
|
Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 18:47 |
|
As far as I can see, Vitamin D2 and Vitamin D3 have identical actions in the human VDR.
The difference between them relates to the tail of the molecule, which plays little part on binding the co-activator DRIP205, which is required for transcription of all the genes which we are most interested in In fact, Olmesartan doesn't even have a significant 'tail' region.
|
Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
|
Posted: Sat Dec 20th, 2008 18:53 |
|
Here is another paper to contemplate, the infamous Mushroom "enhancements." Note that the conversion efficiency they get by irradiation is quite low...
"Distribution of ergosterol in different tissues of mushrooms and its effect on the conversion of ergosterol to vitamin D2 by UV irradiation"
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.foodchem.2004.08.022
But then, they were just exposing the external tissues of the mushroom, while the enzymatic conversion in-vivo would be working on individual molecules...
Also:
"Optimizing vitamin D2 in mushrooms: pilot study to expose mushrooms to ultraviolet light"
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ZQQ/is_/ai_n24993039
|
Ron
Member in Phase 2
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 02:13 |
|
Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: "Even the level of ergosterol in a yeast rich Weiss bier (4.5 µg/330 mL) was still negligible compared to the recommended daily amount, which is of the order of grams"
Er, no, actually the 200IU US RDA of Vit D is about 5 micrograms of Vitamin D total from all sources
Damn.. there goes my Weihenstephaner...
Merry Christmas to all of you!
Ron
____________________
Dad with RA, MP 01/08| 25D 16.8| Apr08 25D-7.1 Sep08 11.6 Mar09 7.6 Jul09 17| oxycodon, NoIRs, limited outings covered up
|
geirf
Health Professional
| Joined: | Mon Nov 17th, 2008 |
| Location: | Ulvik, Norway |
| Posts: | 11 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 18:21 |
|
Would that mean they have the same effect,
that D2 is not "inferior" to D3,
or what does the higher potency of D3 to D2 mean ??
____________________
Geir Flatabø
|
Frans
Member in Phase 2
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21st, 2008 18:35 |
|
geirf wrote: Would that mean they have the same effect,
that D2 is not "inferior" to D3,
or what does the higher potency of D3 to D2 mean ??
I think it also depends if the same enzymes convert D2 to 1,25D2. eg Cyp27A1 and Cyp27B1 ?
Frans
____________________
Burn-out/nervous breakdown Jan01 125D 48 25D8.48 Ph1Nov06 ModPh2Jan07 Ph2Apr08 Cipramil Seroquel NoIRs lite exp r/t work cover up 25D3.9(Oct07)
|
hana
Member
|
Posted: Sun Sep 13th, 2009 22:58 |
|
| I have sarcoidosis and weisse beer is the only beer the cause a reaction in me similar to spending too much time in the sun or eating salmon,
____________________
Sarcoidosis w/pulm, fatigue, chest pain, depr, skin rash 125D UNKNOWN, 25D18, MP NO, Pred 10mg p/d, Cut D [in diet] 10/07.
|
jrfoutin
Research Team
| Joined: | Tue Aug 9th, 2005 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 3924 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Sep 14th, 2009 04:53 |
|
I am also curious about baked products that rely on yeast (bread), is there a similar/related expected outcome (Ergosterol)?
Best to all--Janet
____________________
Sarcoidosis 125D61, MP10/05 ModP2 12/05 Ph2 6/06 Ph3 10/06, NoIRs limited outings covered, 2/08 25D6.2, 10/08 25D6.9
|
Betsy G
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Fri Oct 8th, 2004 |
| Location: | Meridian, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 425 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 09:52 |
|
This explains why I got ill after having a beer several months ago. Who would have thought????
Betsy
____________________
Sarcoidosis by lung biopsy, muscle joint skin 25D-10(Dec07). Nov04 Benicar. Ph1Mar05 Mino,NoIRs, K cream,windows covered. Ph2Jun05. Ph3July06. Wellbutrin Vit E
|
Knochen
Moderator
| Joined: | Thu Feb 23rd, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 349 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 16:38 |
|
I am also curious about baked products that rely on yeast (bread), is there a similar/related expected outcome (Ergosterol)?
I suppose it depends on the heat stability of Ergosterol. In beer, especially in the "live yeast" types like wheat beers that are unpasteurized, there's no heat involved that would degrade any of the yeast products. All the boiling, etc. takes place before fermentation, the yeast is added (and reproduces wildly) after things have cooled down. With bread, you's have the hot, steam filled interior of the bread during baking.
I'm curious as well, but I don't know about the heat stability of Ergosterol, so I can't really say. Any biochemists care to chime in?
____________________
Reiter's Syndrome 25+ yrs, fatigue, joints, muscles, migraine, brainfog| 25D <4 ng/ml |Benicar May06|Ph1 June06|Ph 2 Sept06|Ph 3 Jan 07|NoIRs K-Cream Zinc Oxide cream - Always covered!
|
Cynthia Schnitz
Member in Phase 3
|
Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 23:07 |
|
I am a very regular wheat bread eater, one to two slices per day. For the last several months I bake my own bread, whole wheat with extra baker's yeast, and my 25D test last month was 11.8 ng/ml.
Cynthia
____________________
Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D10 3/09,Estradiol .75mg, xMag+Ca, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
|
jrfoutin
Research Team
| Joined: | Tue Aug 9th, 2005 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 3924 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2009 00:23 |
|
Apparently, there are a few sources I Googled that seem to be aware of the Ergosterol/D2 connection and have been working on the same question (already baked bread and Ergosterol) from a different angle... some even suggest further enhancing D and B vitamin content in products via yeast, including baked bread so yeast/Ergosterol seems to hold up during the baking process.
Interesting that moldy bread was also used in some of the studies. This clearly is a product that has had heat and some time to sit and grow mold after that.
http://tinyurl.com/lcosrv
Determination of ergosterol as an indicator of fungal biomass in various samples using non-discriminating flash pyrolysis
References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.
Ziba Parsia and Tadeusz Górecki, a,
aDepartment of Chemistry, University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario N2L 3G1, Canada
Abstract
Ergosterol is the major sterol constituent of most fungi. Since it is present in negligible amounts in higher plants, it can be used as a chemical marker for the presence of fungal contamination. A number of different ergosterol assays have been developed for the quantification of fungi in various samples. The paper presents the development of a new method for ergosterol detection based on the combination of non-discriminating flash pyrolysis with gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (Py-GC/MS). The design of the non-discriminating Py-GC/MS systems assures efficient transfer of high-molecular-weight pyrolysis products to the GC column for separation, followed by analyte detection by MS. The method was tested on different types of samples, including baker's yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), moldy bread, indoor dust, and a leaf infected with powdery mildew. Ergosterol was detected in all these samples at levels ranging from 4 mg/g for the baker's yeast to 6 μg/g for household dust. The main benefits of non-discriminating pyrolysis over other techniques include elimination of the need for sample preparation, small sample size required and short analysis time.
.............
http://tinyurl.com/lqq2zz
"The growth of yeasts slightly increased the ergosterol contents, but did not influence amino acid contents and compositions,..."
..............
http://tinyurl.com/l3z7ty
Categories: Patent Applications
Novel Vitamin D2 Yeast Preparation, a Method for Producing the Same, and the Use Thereof
Source: United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO)
13/06/2008
The present invention relates to novel yeast. More specifically, a novel yeast that is enriched for Vitamin D. In one aspect, the invention comprises a yeast that retains its gassing power after UV irradiation and that can be used to produce breads and other baked products with significant levels of vitamin D, in particular Vitamin D2. The invention also relates to a method of producing a novel D2 enriched yeast as well methods of using the novel yeast of the invention.
Inventors: Degre; Richard; (St-Bruno, CA) ; Zhang; Zhigen; (Notre-Dame-De-Grace, CA) ; Edwards; Gary; (Montreal, CA)
.................
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf00028a014
Supercritical fluid extraction and supercritical fluid chromatography of the fungal metabolite ergosterol
First PageHi-Res PDF[591 KB]J. Christopher. Young, David E. Games
J. Agric. Food Chem., 1993, 41 (4), pp 577–581
DOI: 10.1021/jf00028a014
Publication Date: April 1993
Flour, moldy bread, and mushrooms tested.
83% recovery of free ergosterol for spiked bread flour.
Sensitivity on a 1.0-g sample of flour was about 0.05 mug/g. Observed levels of ergosterol ranged from 0.08 mug/g (fresh weight basis) in a cake flour to 14.3 mg/g (freeze-dried basis) in mushroom caps.
I used to make a lot of my own bread too, to avoid the folate issue and have whole grain + known ingredients. But now I am ingesting less yeast as a general rule. Still eat out occasionally with minimal folate+yeast/white bread once in a blue moon, but predominantly do better via pulse/whole grain options without baking or yeast. Your conclusions and dietary results may vary.
Still, until there are more specific data points, I think I'll generally opt out of products that incorporate yeast, baked or not.
What societies don't rely a lot on yeast bread, too. How are they doing?
Best to all--Janet
____________________
Sarcoidosis 125D61, MP10/05 ModP2 12/05 Ph2 6/06 Ph3 10/06, NoIRs limited outings covered, 2/08 25D6.2, 10/08 25D6.9
|
jcwat101
Research Professional
| Joined: | Tue Jul 20th, 2004 |
| Location: | Pasadena, USA |
| Posts: | 1453 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2009 04:16 |
|
I would say, though, that at this time, there is not enough evidence to say we need to avoid yeast bread. Many have had low 25-D who have not avoided it.
One is encouraged to eat a generally low carb diet on the MP, though (but don't make any abrupt changes -- as lowering carbs may increase IP some). The definition of low carb varies widely, however.
Joyce Waterhouse
____________________
20 yrs with CFS/FM/Lyme/IBS, food sensitivities; 1,25D/25D 8/04:64/11 http://SynergyHN.com
|
GeorgeinRollaMO
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Tue Aug 10th, 2004 |
| Location: | Rolla, Missouri USA |
| Posts: | 489 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2009 08:23 |
|
I would like to point out that there are two major types of beer that I know about. However, I am no beer "expert"... only enjoy the taste of an occasional beer. 
One type of beer is that made from wheat, which seems to be in my experience, the most prevalent beer, by number of brands, in the U.S. and maybe in Europe.
The other beer is made from rice. The Asian beers are generally made from rice...and so is the U.S.'s Budweiser (regular). That U.S. company makes about a dozen different brands of beer.
I can drink one beer (12oz) of the rice variety without any trouble. But trying even one beer of the wheat beer variety (and different brands) gives me tremendous cramps in the lower legs at night.
I have found that salicylates in all foods give me these cramps, also.
I have no knowledge about the difference in ergocalciferol of the two varieties, if any difference.
Wishing all wellness! 
Dark Vader...aka, George
____________________
Borreliosis:7/14/04--125D=57,25D=61. Ben 9/1/04. Mino 10/5/04. 4/13/05--125D=58,25D=43. 8/17/05--125D=52,25D=36. April 06=125D=38,25D=29. 8/29/06--125D=37,25D=29. June 07 25D=23. Oct31'07,25D=19.
|
Wojta
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Mon Jan 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | Czech Republic |
| Posts: | 88 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2009 12:56 |
|
I had seen here previously some discussion about possibilities to increase 25D by eating peanut butter and even mustard.
Are there any news about these two particular foods? Although I am trying to avoid it, sometimes I just can't resist peanut butter, not to speak about mustard, which accompanies a lot of meats I am eating.
Should I be more careful with them?
____________________
Lyme, Feb08: 1,25D=43.9pg/ml, 25D=10.8ng/ml, 25D=8.7ng/ml on Jul 15 2008, Xyzal 5mg qd, covered up outside, NoIRs, no direct sunlight
|
Carricol
Member in Phase 3
|
Posted: Wed Sep 16th, 2009 23:58 |
|
I think most European beers are made with hops and Barley Malt.
http://www.beer-pages.co.uk/glossary/glossary_a_e.htm#E
http://www.beer-wine.com/category_page.asp?categoryID=21§ionID=1
____________________
Sarcoidosis 1-25D 16, 21 Oct 08; Ph1 Nov07, Synthroid, 5-HTP, tyrosine, digestive enzymes, NOIRs lite exp r/t commute cover up, Ph2 Jan 08, Ph 3, 6 May 09, 25D 5, Jul 09
|
jrfoutin
Research Team
| Joined: | Tue Aug 9th, 2005 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 3924 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Sep 17th, 2009 00:59 |
|
Joyce, you are correct:
"I would say, though, that at this time, there is not enough evidence --"
Even with the studies I cited, I have to agree.
The point, maybe, is not to make a radical food choice for or against at this time, but likely to enhance awareness and observe outcomes over a period of time, much like George has noted. And, like I said, it is very difficult to avoid bread altogether, so I just switch out yeast products when possible. My 25D has always been low, even when yeast bread that I made myself was daily food group stuff.
If your observation of even changing carbs a little impacts IP, then that is something to consider at some point in time.
I think future of scientific discovery will have plenty of MP-inspired "food for thought" at least, after more modeling and clinical data has been researched for a number of different food groups and sub groups. (Scientists, please form an orderly line and start your engines...?)
Best to all--Janet
____________________
Sarcoidosis 125D61, MP10/05 ModP2 12/05 Ph2 6/06 Ph3 10/06, NoIRs limited outings covered, 2/08 25D6.2, 10/08 25D6.9
|
Current time is 14:12 | |
|
|
|
|
