The Marshall Protocol Study Site > PROF. MARSHALL'S PERSPECTIVE > Prof. Marshall's Perspective > Automated Vitamin D Metabolites Analysis
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The Marshall Protocol Study Site > PROF. MARSHALL'S PERSPECTIVE > Prof. Marshall's Perspective > Automated Vitamin D Metabolites Analysis |
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| Moderated by: Dr Trevor Marshall | ||
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team 
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During a discussion about how much we have learned about Vit D metabolite interpretation over the last year, JoshR suggested that we could automate the whole (new) process. Less than two months later - here it is for you to play with, and to find any bugs, before we advertise it more widely in a day or three. You can access the calculator on the new Knowledge Base at: http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:tests:vitdinterpretation Thanks to Paul and Joyful for making it happen  |
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Teresa Green Member 
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Trevor, I tested it and found the following: 1.) That the original units selected in the entry screen reverted back from nmol/L to ng/ml and pmol/L to pg/ml respectively, following submission of the results. 2.) And the entries for question 1 and 2 also reverted back to the default settings following submission of the results. Teresa |
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Nasseroo Member in Phase 3
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Trevor, What a helpful development. I suggest two minor grammatical changes to the introductory paragraph: 1) change "microbiota accumulates" to "microbiota accumulate" since microbiota is plural 2) eliminate the comma and replace with a period at "medical diagnosis. The healthcare practitioner..." Use a period instead of a comma to avoid what English teachers call a run-on sentence. Debbie Mostaghel, Nasseroo/Nassim's mother |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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Teresa, I think the initialization issues are fixed. Sorry that the defaults are set up for those members living in the USA, it was a choice we had to make... Debbie, Hmm... 'microbiota' is plural, eh? Hmm.. I had better think about that... there is a lot of stuff I have written which will need to be revised... Maybe I had better start using Microbiome and Metabonome instead. Sigh... You are correct about the comma, however that sentence was written for lawyers to read (it is a disclaimer) and we don't want to make it too hard for them to keep it all together in their minds Thanks for your thoughts, though. Hmm... 'microbiota'... interesting... |
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Julia Member in Phase 3 
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Microbiota is surely a plural term used for a colony, just as 'gut flora' is. It is commonly used as a singular. Debbie, I've changed the comma to a semi-colon for clarity |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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I had an email which pointed out that we have forgotten to tell people with low 25-D levels that this is usually a sign of Th1 disease. Ooops... I will fix that ASAP... |
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Deedee Member in Phase 2 
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Should there be something on there that makes it clear that you can start treatment before reaching therapeutic D levels? |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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The text for levels below 20ng/ml has been altered to add:In countries where milk is supplemented with Vitamin D, it is unusual to see 25-D levels in this range unless Th1/Th17 inflammatory disease is present. Assessment of the degree of inflammation involves assessment of both sources of ingestion, and the measured 25-D level. If the individual has been carefully avoiding all exogenous sources of Vitamin D, this level might possibly be within normal limits, and a therapeutic probe is suggested to confirm the presence or absence of Th1/Th17 disease.and below 14ng/ml to say: The primary mechanism depressing 25-D levels below 14ng/ml is Th1/Th17 inflammation. The 25-D metabolism will be driven to even lower values as the inflammation becomes more widespread. Conversely, the presence of ingested Vitamin D from milk, food, and supplements will counteract this trend. Assessment of the degree of inflammation involves assessment of both the sources of ingestion and the measured 25-D level.----------------------------- DeeDee, Any 25-D values over 41 will trigger a message: The 25-D has built up to a level which is highly immunosuppressive. It will need to be weaned lower before test results can be meaningful, and before contemplating any therapyI don't think we have any other messages relating to not starting therapy, do we? I am mainly concerned to make sure we don't get any more patients with a 25-D of 50ng/ml being put into Phase 2. As their 25-D drops into the therapeutic region it is likely that their immunopathology would become unstable and even uncontrollable. |
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Deedee Member in Phase 2
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One more question..... When I started I had been supplementing and my D was 54. I believe I read that by taking the benicar, that would help reduce the D faster. Correct me if I am wrong. After 3 months I was down to D24. I starting having IP within the first week of Benicar (...now realizing many improvements, thank you.) So is this saying no Benicar if the D is over 41? |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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Yes, DeeDee, I don't want anybody to get into trouble by starting therapy with a 25-D which is too high. Arguably, levels between 30 and 40 are likely to be problematic, too, but also we have the problem that symptoms will get really bad as the D immunosuppression lifts. Benicar can help them wean through the 30-40 range... As we understand more about the science underlying the therapy, we can start to put in safeguards to make sure that people don't get too many surprises. A month (or so) of waiting while the D drops to 40 is better (IMO) than risking the transition from extreme immunosuppression to immune activation in just a few days... |
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Deedee Member in Phase 2
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Thanks for that clarification. Mostly, thank you and the team for providing hope and a path for restored health. |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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++++++++ IF NOBODY HAS ANY MORE ISSUES +++++++++ +++++++ WE CAN START LETTING THE NEWBIES +++++++ +++++++++ KNOW ABOUT THE CALCULATOR ++++++++++ http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:tests:vitdinterpretation |
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expate Member in Phase 3 
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Microbiota is a plural, not a collective noun. Commonly, people do say, "The data is convincing," but properly it should be "data are". I expect this is analogous to that: you have a single datum that when grouped with others becomes data. I don't talk science, so I don't know - does anybody ever refer to a single microbiotum? Hmmmm, that sounds a little, uh funny as in, "Wow, you've lost weight. You sure do have a micro biotum." [heavy Southern accent needed for that one!]  dette |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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I knew Wikipedia wouldn't let us down: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbiota |
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Julia Member in Phase 3
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Good old Wikipedia!  I think you might be right, Odette, but a quick google-hunt produces many scientific papers using the term as singular and many as plural. And Wiktionary actually gives the plural "microbiotas". |
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Cold Feet Member in Phase 3
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I like the simplicity of this test – please keep it that way if you can. My test result shows “less than 7" for 25-D, so I chose “6.” Does this matter? What’s the cut-off?! Here’s my result cut & pasted: Feedback on vitamin D results 25-D: 6 ng/ml 1,25-D: 25 pg/ml Steroids/TNF drugs: No Olmesartan: Yes Interpretations of 1,25-D are not useful after therapy with olmesartan has commenced – or if corticosteroids, anti-fungals, or TNF-alpha drugs have recently been taken. Please post on the Physicians Forum on the study site. The primary mechanism depressing 25-D levels below 14ng/ml is Th1/Th17 inflammation. The 25-D metabolism will be driven to even lower values as the inflammation becomes more widespread. Conversely, the presence of ingested Vitamin D from milk, food, and supplements will counteract this trend. Assessment of the degree of inflammation involves assessment of both the sources of ingestion and the measured 25-D level. This level of 25-D is in the therapeutic range. This is a good place from which to initiate therapy concomitant with continued avoidance of ingested Vitamin D. Last edited on Thu Mar 12th, 2009 02:16 by Cold Feet |
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expate Member in Phase 3
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Well, is this what you meant about Wikipedia not letting us down? "Microbiota (as a plural noun) also refers to microflora and microfauna as a group; especially to the various bacteria that live in the gut of normal, healthy humans and other animals." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbiota_(disambiguation)] Or were you being sarcastic about the main definition being a genus of conifer in Siberia? Anyhow, datum, bacterium, microbiotum (I can't type that without laughing  ) are singular and data, bacteria, and microbiota are plural. But, as I said, common usage pretty much allows a person to say, "The bacteria left from cutting raw chicken on a cutting board is dangerous and should be washed off before using the same board for cutting vegetables for raw comsumption." [I know, that sentence has a couple of other grammatical errors, but you get my point...]And then there's genus/genera. Unfortunately, I did not study Latin, but I suspect that's the culprit here. I honestly don't care one way or the other. There are times I feel people who say "data are" sound pretentious.  dette |
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