The Marshall Protocol Study Site > PROF. MARSHALL'S PERSPECTIVE > Prof. Marshall's Perspective > The Antibodies Congress in Beijing, May 2009
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The Marshall Protocol Study Site > PROF. MARSHALL'S PERSPECTIVE > Prof. Marshall's Perspective > The Antibodies Congress in Beijing, May 2009 |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team 
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Amy's presentation at the Antibodies conference in Beijing was very well received, with much of the audience staying 33 minutes into their lunch-hour to continue asking questions and engaging in the discussion. The video of Amy's presentation is online at http://vimeo.com/5106259 The presentation of Dr Xiangyang Huang, PhD, MD, of West China Hospital, Sichuan University, has also been placed online. It will give you some idea of the depth of molecular study being pursued there. http://vimeo.com/5066949 A copy of Amy's abstract can be found here: http://AutoimmunityResearch.org/abstracts/Proal_WCA_2009_abstract.pdf I have now received written permission to republish the promotional video for West China Hospital, to help us all understand why the Foundation has put so many of its resources into helping WCH make the MP available in China. You can view the video at URL: http://vimeo.com/2599727 This video can also be downloaded and played with VLC player, if your Internet connection is slow. Last edited on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 17:28 by Dr Trevor Marshall |
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Deedee Member in Phase 2 
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This is all very interesting and I enjoyed watching the video on the hospital. From this statement from Amy's abstract, "West China Hospital is currently is collaborating to trial the VDR/antibiotic therapy in their autoimmune patients"---- Does this mean the hospital will be conducting a clinical trial or observational study? I heard on the video that they publish more on research articles than any other hospital in China. Will their trial be published? |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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DeeDee, skeptics who demand more than an "observational" trial are never going to satisfied. Get used to it  WCH is the Cochrane collaborating center for China. Excellence in Evidence Based Medicine. I spoke with the head of the Clinical Trials Unit yesterday. It never entered his mind to insist that we have to do a "placebo, double blinded" trial. You see, there are experts in study design, and there are people who just pretend to be experts. The trials at WCH will be initially set up to gather data, almost certainly using an "historical comparator" study design. Initial studies will be to check the dosing of Benicar, measure the 25-D and 1,25-D levels in the population here, and get to grips with immunopathology. Only after the groundwork is in place will we move to efficacy studies |
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Russ Member in Phase 3 
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Will the patients be taking antibiotics too or just Benicar? By the way, congrats on all the progress you and the foundation are making. |
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Deedee Member in Phase 2
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That had somewhat concerned me that some poor innocents would be fed placebos, but I am pleased to hear that this was not even considered. The film talked a lot about their research, which lead me to wonder how the information they glean from the MP will be compiled and/or published. I can't wait to learn more about the "historical comparator" study design. This is all very exciting. I hope to visit that part of China someday. My daughter-in-law is from Thailand and we have often talked about visiting China together. The buildings in the video were beautiful. I hope you have some time to enjoy the city and countryside while you are there. Thank you very much for everything you are doing. |
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paulalbert Board Staff 
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To me, treatment efficacy means addressing MP patients' near universal IP reaction. How can a person explain IP if not through systematic and large-scale destruction of bacteria and human cells infected by bacteria? Paul |
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eClaire Member in Phase 2 
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Seeing the department of psychiatry makes me wonder if the MP will be tried on mental health patients who have been admitted to the hospital (that is, if they have long-term patients). It would be great to see people get well who need greater support because of the affect of IP on their emotions and thoughts due to the extent that Th1 has affected their mental health. It seems to me that short-term hospitalization (whatever that means) would be a much better investment of money in all who are chronically ill than what we are currently doing. Claire |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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In China they don't put Vit D in milkshakes or icecream. Surely a little bit woudn't hurt?  This young stranger walked up to us at the Panda Base, and wanted her picture taken with the crazy American:  |
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Freddie Ash Member in Phase 3 
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HI DR MARSHALL & AMY This is Fred in WV. Just wanted to thank you both for all you have done in China. Great pictures. I am still pulling for us. Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us. Your friend in Sarcoidosis Freddie |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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This is at the DuJiang Yan water conservation (irrigation) project, which dates from the Ming Dynasty... |
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Martin78 Member in Phase 1 
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Glad to see youre back on the road Trevor! Br Martin |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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Another city, and another show... This time an additional collaboration, with the Medical College of Luzhou:  After our lectures at West China Hospital Monday night, Amy and I were driven to Luzhou, a city of about 5 million, some 150 Km south of Chengdu. After overnighting at a hotel there, we were picked up for lunch, then whisked away to the Medical College for yet another 'Trevor Talk'... This one was a little different, as we had Chinese translation following each one of my slides. I think the video will come out quite interesting... Then whisked back to Chengdu (another 3-hour car ride), where Amy is trying to get some sleep before the chauffeur arrives at 6am to take her to the airport... I have extended my trip a few extra days, and will fly home later this week... I am not sure what was printed on that medal which Amy was given, but she is showing it proudly to the camera |
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tom Member in Phase 3 
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I couldn’t help but see the correlation between effective business models of industry and similar application to medical research and development. Both models become hindered when an excessive level of bureaucracy is layered on. It would also seem to me WCH has reflected china’s ideals, which is investing in the future, with what appears to be their efficiencies in biological research and experimentation. Dr, I would love to here a bit more of your personal observations on our differing cultures, with respect to their approach to this research. “The US NIH has estimated that 90% of the cells in Homo sapiens are microbial and not human in origin” I would assume that this statement from Amy’s abstract might be common knowledge among researchers and scientists but for a laymen like me, it was just sobering. Tom |
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paulalbert Board Staff
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The US NIH has estimated that 90% of the cells in Homo sapiens are microbial and not human in origin. In Amy's and my experience, sharing this observation appears to be the most effective way to get people interested of the validity of the Marshall Pathogenesis. By the way, this is NOT common knowledge among researchers. And even if it is, they don't know what to make of it. Paul Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 23:56 by paulalbert |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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After my presentation in Luzhou yesterday (it is pronounced loo-joe) Amy and I were taken to the 1573 wine-making company,where they have been making rice-based spirits the same way since the Ming Dynasty, hence the name '1573.' Here are workers tending the fermenting rice piles, allegedly in the same way as in the Ming Dynasty: Here is Amy, ceremonially tasting some of the fresh 60% liqueur at the factory:  We both survived that experience, and we were taken to a dinner banquet, where rather a lot of the nice 1573 stuff was served. This photo was supposed to show the vegetable delicately carved into the shape of a peacock, but Amy zoomed it out a bit, and caught me in the photo, too:  Amy is winging her way home now with some bottles of 1573 in her luggage... |
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Deedee Member in Phase 2
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Thanks for the great photos. It has me wishing I were there....What a great experience! |
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Caitiegirl Member in Phase 2
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I hope everyone is noticing that Dr. M and Amy look wonderfully normal sitting outside without hats and dark glasses. A gentle reminder that there is an endpoint if we all just persevere. Mindy |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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I returned home from China yesterday. Amy is home too. There will be a formal Press Release in a few days, after we finish working out all the details, but I figured you all might like to know what happened Here is a photo summarizing the most important point: Yesterday I signed an "Agreement on collaboration of the California Autoimmunity Research Foundation and the Dept of Rheumatology at the West China Hospital/West China Medical on the Clinical study of the Marshall Protocol therapy in Chinese patients" Our agreement calls for in-vivo, ex-vivo and in-vitro studies to explore all levels of the science, as well as the therapy. The clinical studies will be large, with hundreds of patients, and last for 2 years, along with longer-term follow-up. The clinical studies will be controlled against a DMARD/NSAID control patient group. The Foundation will soon start a fund-raising drive to help pay for the cost of running the trials. I want to thank Amy, Liz, Paul, Chris and Cathy Benediktsson, and all (of you) who have worked so turn this opportunity into reality. I expect to make a more detailed announcement later this week I have a video of a presentation from Assoc. Prof. Huong showing the quality of Sichuan University's in-vitro work which I will try and put online in a few days, along with Amy's presentation at the Antibodies conference, and my presentation at Luzhou (the presentation which has the concurrent Chinese translation). |
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Deedee Member in Phase 2
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This is enormous news! Congratulations! I am just so excited I hardly know what to say!!! |
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Ute Health Professional
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Very impressive! My best wishes to the whole poject! |
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Deedee Member in Phase 2
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What types of diagnoses will be included in the study? |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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Initially we will look at Ankylosing spondylitis. The disease progress is easily measured, and there is no dispute that it is "all in your mind." |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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Dr Huang, an Associate professor at West China Hospital, Sichuan University, is one of our collaborators in the upcoming studies. During our visit to WCH , she gave a presentation describing her research on the pathways leading to IFIT4 expression,. I have put the video online at URL http://vimeo.com/5066949 This is not directly related to our own research, except that you will be able to see how thoroughly the researchers at West China Hospital are pursuing fundamental molecular research. Some of their efforts will now be channeled into ex-vivo and in-vitro analysis of the MP's molecular actions |
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findinganswers Member in Phase 2
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Dr. Marshall, Do they have the capability to do DNA sequencing of cells as discussed here? http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum39/9999-6.html |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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Yes, they can isolate and sequence individual cells. |
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NorCalJim Member in Phase 3 
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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: Initially we will look at Ankylosing spondylitis. The disease progress is easily measured, and there is no dispute that it is "all in your mind." Good choice in my opinion. Interestingly my last x-rays came back "normal" after about 2 years on the MP which certainly puzzled my doctor... NorCalJim |
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Cynthia Schnitz Member in Phase 3 
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I've had a bit of confusion over the terms used. Is spondylitis the inflammatory part of the disease, and spondylosis the degenerative damage caused by the spondylitis? Sort of the case of spondylitis preceding spondylosis? Have the researchers listed the tests they plan to monitor to follow progress on the MP? Thanks, Cynthia (with spondylosis of some sort among other problems) |
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findinganswers Member in Phase 2
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Dr. Marshall wrote:Yes, they can isolate and sequence individual cells. I was wondering, is there much interest in examining the ecology/species of bacteria living intracellularly? If multiple species inhabit the same cell, is it possible to separate out which species are present? When you say "individual cells," do you mean individual human immune cells or individual bacterial cells? If bacterial, how do they isolate them if they are living intracellularly with other species, say within a biofilm? Sorry for so many questions, but this is exciting to me. |
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PGA Terry Member in Phase 3
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Cynthia.....check out these two entries at wikipedia. Ankylosing spondylitis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spondylosis Terry |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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The video of Amy's 'antibodies' presentation is now online at http://vimeo.com/5106259 It was a really good presentation, with the questions stretching 33 minutes into the lunch-hour before the chairman called a halt. There was another 10 minutes of informal discussion before most of us started to think about food... The presentation of Prof Xiangyang Huang, PhD, MD, of West China Hospital, Sichuan University, has also been placed online. It will give you some idea of the depth of molecular study being pursued there. http://vimeo.com/5066949 Last edited on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 17:30 by Dr Trevor Marshall |
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Frans Member in Phase 2 
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Great presentation Ames ! Well done !! Best, Frans |
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Ames Board Staff 
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Hi all, As you can already probably tell from the pictures in this thread, I enjoyed traveling to China very much. First, the Congress of the Antibody went very well and people seemed quite interested in the MP pathogenesis. Then, I had the unique opportunity to travel down to Chengdu and join Dr. Marshall in discussing/implementing the MP with researchers at West China Hospital. The researchers and doctors at WHC work extremely hard and I think the hospital is an excellent place to conduct the clinical trial. Between scientific discussions, the researchers involved in our collaboration made sure we never had a dull moment. We were taken to see pandas, temples, and even into the mountains of China with lush vegetation. Everyone involved including our student guides were extremely gracious and generous. I have written two new articles on Bacteriality. One describes my experience at the International Congress of the Antibody. I do not describe the collaboration meetings with WHC because I am aware that I was not there as a reporter but a scientist. Also I wrote a short post describing what I've been up to lately - work and play that has unfortunately kept me from posting regularly on Bacteriality but has been very satisfying. Best, Amy |
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eClaire Member in Phase 2
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Fabulous Amy!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Martin78 Member in Phase 1
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Congratulations on a presentation well done Amy! It was magnificent! Br Martin |
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paulalbert Board Staff
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Would anyone mind transcribing the Q & A? http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:publications:proal_ica_2009 Some of the questions are a little hard to make out, but that's okay. Just use "..." If you want you can email me and I'll put it in the Knowledge Base. thanks, Paul |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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My presentation at Luzhou Medical College, Szechuan province, China, on June 2, 2009 is now online at Vimeo: http://vimeo.com/5144907 Info on LMC is at: http://globaldentalsources.com/info/news/news_view.asp?id=8090 The presentation is a concise summary of the science and therapy underlying the Marshall Protocol clinical intervention for chronic disease. Concurrent translation commentary in Chinese is provided by Professor Liu. For some reason Vimeo cannot seem to get exact synchronization between the video and the audio on this clip. However, the MP4 video file, which is synchronized correctly, can be downloaded by Vimeo members. The link is at the bottom right of the Vimeo page. It plays with a free VLC player (http://videolan.org/vlc ) on either Mac, Windows or Linux. |
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NorCalJim Member in Phase 3
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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: I returned home from China yesterday. Amy is home too. Hi I was just curious if the Press Release was released yet? If not, no pressure, just would be nice to be able to link to something "official" regarding this great news! NorCalJim |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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I was distracted by the events in Australia. I am in Sydney at the moment ..Trevor.. |
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geneartemenko Member in Phase 2 
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From Dr. Marshall's presentation in China I understood that Benicar Q6 40mg has antibacterial effect by activating the immune system and Benicar Q4 and higher has palliative effect by deactivating the immune system. Is it correct? Thank you Gene |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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No - at both high and medium doses Benicar activates the innate immune system by activating the VDR. At high dosing levels it also has a palliative effect additional to the palliation it produces at low doses. |
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eClaire Member in Phase 2
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I always wonder if Benicar is palliating my symptoms, why then is my exhaustion greater the more Benicar I take? Exhaustion is a symptom. Logically, I'd assume the exhaustion would be lessened. Claire |
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geneartemenko Member in Phase 2
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Thank You Dr.Marshall. I hope palliative effect at Q4 40mg predominate the activating of the innate immune system, because if it is not, how I can settle my IP if I will continue take Benicar and quaifenesin doesn't make much difference so fare. Gene |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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Claire, The extra palliation and organ protection at high doses is most noticeable once you get well along the path to recovery, and is the primary effect in Stage 5 (when immune activation effect is no longer a factor, as the body is stimulating the VDR by itself). Gene, Working out how to manage IP is indeed my number 1 priority right now. We have very few tools which work reliably. Sorry you are having trouble with that. My ultimate goal is to make sure that people are not allowed to get as sick as most of our current members are, but unfortunately, at this point we will just have to struggle with the hand fate has dealt us. |
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Rico Moderator
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I can confirm that - not personally, but my wife had a difficult time with Benicar q6h initially and would be worse with q4h. Over time, she's found that q4h does alleviate IP a bit now. Even though she's still struggling, I guess it means she's well along the path to recovery, which is encouraging. |
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scooker48 Member in Phase 3 
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Dr. Marshall and the entire team of ARF, CONGRATULATIONS on this milestone, and I am cheering you on. The agreement at West China Hospital will use a population of Chinese who have not been subjected to fortified "Vitamin D" in their diets, as has the population of the USA, UK, Western Europe, Australia, etc. Correct? If that is the case, will the results be helpful in establishing fortified Vitamin D as upsetting the "steady state" of the human body? One of your greatest fans, Sherry |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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Sherry, The Chinese diet contains a lot of fish, mushrooms and egg. I am holding back any guesses about their Vit D status until the data starts to come in from the study cohort. I am sure you understand UK, Western Europe, and Australia, all to varying degrees, have been exposed to the "more Vitamin D is good" pragma for some time. Sunbathing binges are common amongst their youth (Scandinavians promote Egypt as a venue for summer holidays, for example). Multivitamins are commonplace throughout those regions, and have been for decades. So I don't want to generalize until I see hard data |
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Frans Member in Phase 2
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Trevor, I understand a press release is on the way. I was wondering what will be studied by West China Hospital. Will they look at some of the things I sum up below? I will sum up some ideas I have: - will they biopsy the vertabraes that are fused together, to look for bacterial rRNA in that tissue? - will they assess bacterial load before and during the study, in the blood, but perhaps also tissue specific? - will they be looking at transcriptional activity, eg of VDR itself but also of other genes we now know are transcribed by VDR ? This also in blood or tissues. Will they be doing more general studies? I mean studies like: - letting olmesartan loose on cells in vitro to measure rate of upregulation of VDR - perhaps look for exactly which receptor is responsible for transcribing VDR, besides the VDR itself? You mentioned the Estrogen receptor. - from there on perhaps look which proteins are responsible for that and do genome wide screens for look-alike bacterial or viral proteins to see if there are more bacteria or viruses that can knock out the VDR ? - perhaps do the same to find analogs of capnine ? Best, Frans Last edited on Mon Jul 20th, 2009 14:54 by Frans |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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We will put those on the list of things for the students at Sichuan University to be looking at WCH has long-standing expertise in Ankylosing Spondylitis, and they have tests available to measure osteoclastic action and osteoblastic action, for example. So I am sure they are going to be able to track the cohort's progress pretty well. They also have local support groups in the outlying regions who will be providing counselling and support-meetings to try and emulate the community spirit we formed here on the study site. WCH is the Cochrane collaborator for Chinese evidence based medicine. They know exactly what they are doing. And their aim is to cure their patients. They gain nothing from having patients coming back to their out-patient surgeries year after year With 4600 beds and 2.5 million outpatients a year WCH is the biggest clinical center in the world... ps: the press release will be going out on Eureka Alert tomorrow |
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Frans Member in Phase 2
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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: We will put those on the list of things for the students at Sichuan University to be looking at Sounds like a plan If they need any help ...  they have tests available to measure osteoclastic action and osteoblastic action, for example That´s great. That way they can (indirectly) measure that lowering vitamin D actually leads to better bones Who would have thought that ...WCH is the Cochrane collaborator for Chinese evidence based medicine. They know exactly what they are doing If cochrane starts 'advertising' (or at least advocating) the MP in a couple of years ... wow ... ps: the press release will be going out on Eureka Alert tomorrow Can't wait Some appropriate words, especially today: It's a small step for man, .... mankind  Frans Last edited on Mon Jul 20th, 2009 21:18 by Frans |
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bealunn Member in Phase 3
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Bravo Trevor Marshall Press Release |
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eClaire Member in Phase 2
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I'm printing this press release to give to my new doctor who is like a colt in the first 10 minutes of life when it comes to the MP. As we know, it is difficult to establish credibility with new doctors. Yay! Yay! Yay! Just maybe she'll believe that I know something of which I speak. Claire |
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Frans Member in Phase 2
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When I first read the anouncement, it brought tears to my eyes. Biggest points to take to our docs: - WCH, their scientists and Cochrane have implicitly gathered in MP's corner - this should convince doc that MP's view of vit. D cannot be ALL wrong ... - the same goes for (l-form/CWD/hard to culture) bacteria - and perhaps even long term use of pulsed antibiotics - not to forget the agonistic properties of olmesartan in the VDR This, together with all those scientist that have PEER reviewed Trevor's, Amy's, Paul's, cpt Perez's, Greg Blaney's and Joyce's papers in internationally acclaimed journals, makes a hell of a convincing crowd that (new) docs should really, really, try hard to believe/trust ... Congrats to all that have done their utmost (which is not always easy when doing MP) to get us all here. Cheers and thanks ! Frans Last edited on Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 00:38 by Frans |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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Claire, Every member should print this release out and take it to their Doctors. It is short enough for them to read, and we tried to use easily-understood language. Frans has summarized the take-home-points quite well |
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Freddie Ash Member in Phase 3
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HI ALL This is Fred in WV. I will be taking copies to all my doctors, 5 of them. Thank you Dr Marshall for all you effert that you have put into all this to make it come true. Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us. Your friend in Sarcoidosis Freddie |
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Frans Member in Phase 2
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Trevor, I was wondering if the trials in Bejing have already started ? Another thing I wanted to ask is how exactly they are going to implement the MP? Expecially concerning diet low on D, NOIR glasses, avoiding sunlight etc. ? TIA, Frans |
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Dr Trevor Marshall Research Team
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Frans, We are still working on all the details I will answer your questions in a week or three |
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